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You will see by yourself that every back up player had more attempts by minute than Chernobrov. Apart from the starter SG, he is the least favored chance in offense. He took a lot of shoots because he spent a lot of time in the court, not because he was a good offense chance.

but he wasn't much weaker then the rest, so i you repeat the game, maybe he hi t good and the PG bad - this is random. But twenty shots aren't so low, that he don't get solid lucks.

Who is taking a shot is dependant on several factors and being a good offensive player is one. Good offensive players tend to take more shots over a season maybe but I have lost games because bad shooters were wasting too many possessions. One tactical problem to solve is to "encourage" the GE to favour the best shooting opportunities.

i think the ge is pretty good in it, especially when you play with really unbalanced rooster - like i do often in the cup you will see the star player take alot of shots. The assistent player, also take some hsots and they aren't much weaker in finishing, they just have to wait longer to get a look which is good enough that it doesn't hurt the team.

The shooting percentages are not even between my players. I think a 10% difference over a season is a lot. It's not necessarily my best offensive players leading in percentage, again, many factors.

they ain't even, but they often change even without offensiv updates ;) Sometimes player X has better percentages, the next season player Y has better percentages even if they play on the same positon and nealy the same time.

pretty weak scores also have weaker percentages because they take lot of bad shoots with clock running out, but if you follow the game the normal shot are quite normal. So maybe a scorer who could compete with his defender takes ten normal shots, and 1 with clock running out. The weak player maybe takes 5 to 1, and this poor shot are more affected of the normal scoring capability then the team one so there he is weaker then the good one.

So does it mean my player is lousy? Do I have to train another 1 or just train JS and Stamina?

Thx for all your previous answers

but he wasn't much weaker then the rest

So what makes you think he wasn't much weaker than the rest ?

so i you repeat the game, maybe he hi t good and the PG bad - this is random. But twenty shots aren't so low, that he don't get solid lucks.

I don't think he would hit good if the game was replayed.
I don't get you, do you think players shoot percentage is only random ? I am sure you don't.
You don't really know how good were his shots opportunities. The number of solid lucks is not consistent from game to game and there are too many variables to estimate if he had good chances or not. The only hint is his percentage and it looks bad.
I don't believe the number of shots attempted is only decided by the number of good opportunities for each player. Some players will take more desperate shoots than others because of many factors, for exemple because of a low xp. This player may have had a handful of solid lucks, we simply have no idea really.

i think the ge is pretty good in it, especially when you play with really unbalanced rooster - like i do often in the cup you will see the star player take alot of shots

I have a crappy but balanced roster. So has ShohokuZ I think. We may have a different observation of the game because we have a different experience of the game.
I don't have a star player who takes a load of shots. I rely a lot on taking advantage of the match-ups. It makes a difference in my games who will take the most shots and I try to influence it as much as I can. It's not only random. I understand the concept of the "looks" in each play.
I don't think "good looks" are the same for each player, some have lower standards. What looked to Chernobrov a good look was not that good, I speculate because of his combination of xp and the exhaustion consecutive to low stamina in comparison to the opponent C and team.
21 shots in 61 mn is like 10 shots in 30 mn. For a C in a LI, it's not much, he was avoiding to shoot, he didn't have good opportunities.

they ain't even, but they often change even without offensiv updates ;) Sometimes player X has better percentages, the next season player Y has better percentages even if they play on the same positon and nealy the same time

Well, but same position and nearly the same time are only two of several factors other than luck which influence percentage.

pretty weak scores also have weaker percentages because they take lot of bad shoots with clock running out, but if you follow the game the normal shot are quite normal. So maybe a scorer who could compete with his defender takes ten normal shots, and 1 with clock running out. The weak player maybe takes 5 to 1, and this poor shot are more affected of the normal scoring capability then the team one so there he is weaker then the good one.

No, I didn't notice weaker players take more shots at the clock. I think guards do and players with high DV.
I have all sorts of crappy players and a crappy OF so shots at the clock are a main feature in my games :p

You may feel your shot percentages were always even because you had a good team. I presume that a team full of 5 all legendary skills against a team of 5 all atrocious skills would never hit 70% of his shots. The GE would even it out.
If you have a team where players always find good opportunities maybe there is a sort of curbing on the best shooters that makes them have lower % and it looks like it's the same for every player. Just a thought :)

Do you know why he played so much ? Did his back-up pick an injury ? Did you play "Follow strictly..." ?
I wouldn't force him on the court until he is at least horrible in stamina. He can play as a back-up. Or as a starter if you allow him to be substituted but I don't think he will perform well.
A quick fix is to train stamina a bit but others disagree so read them. It's up to you to make a choice.

So what makes you think he wasn't much weaker than the rest ?

No, I didn't notice weaker players take more shots at the clock. I think guards do and players with high DV.
I have all sorts of crappy players and a crappy OF so shots at the clock are a main feature in my games :p

because else he won't shot nearly that often like the rest ;)

I give a extreme example of someone who can not shot in my team:

(2269189) - he can not do it, he don't do it simple math ;) And when you seach his shots, 80% are with less then 4 seconds on the clock.

The number of shots a player takes are the best feedback how good his missmatch was, some other examples from my rooster:

(15069469) - puccio was the only one with offense skill in the double feature from the starting lineup, the rest have weaker skills then 7 ;) Jacot has a weak defender, the good shooters from the bench was rocha and avidano, so all who shoot weak percentages^^

(15085166) - here another game with inbalaced scorers again puccio and a bit the PF has offensiv capabilities, i play often that way in the cup^^ And you could be sure that the offense weapon takes a looot shots, people who didn't see land against the defenders won't try it.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 7/20/2009 10:20:35 AM

because else he won't shot nearly that often like the rest ;)

But he didn't. I showed he shot less than the rest on a per minute basis :)

(2269189) - he can not do it, he don't do it simple math ;) And when you seach his shots, 80% are with less then 4 seconds on the clock.

He took only 11 shots this season. It's a very small sample. Last season, he shot at 40%.
Anyway, I believe he is a bad shooter in your team, he doesn't shoot much.
Less than 4 seconds on the clock is not at the clock. It's the shots at the clock that are rarely scored, a few seconds on the clock is ok I think.

The number of shots a player takes are the best feedback how good his missmatch was

Yes, it's the most important factor. But sometimes, under special conditions, I think it can be heavily altered.
I believe the shooting percentage is also an indicator of how good the match-up was.
If you have a player constantly taking a high number of shots with a low percentage, something is not working and needs a fix. Pleading bad luck is the lazy answer :p

Sincerely, I don't understand what you want to point out with these two games. I am sorry I need you to be more specific.

The second game is interesting and shows a pattern you will find easily in other games in BB. You are beaten in both offense ratings, you have a guard with shooting skills and a relatively good match-up. He takes an overload of shots. Of course, it's favored by the good match-up but if he takes so many shots, it's also because you don't have good shot opportunities and the ball ends falling in his hands because he's a guard with a lot of time on the ball. He is not always shooting on good looks here.

so more then hundred minutes are a bad sample, but one game are?

And with my star player concept in cup i see pretty strange varies in shooting percentages, and thats say nearly nothing about the miss match if i got a miss match they "searched" it and use it a lot but sometimes they have craps in the hand. And the not so good oppurtunities don't shoot that much, but mostly with the same percentage on the long run.

But what were you commenting on ? Percentage or nr of shots taken ? I thought percentage.
Veltins, a 29 yo created in season 3 certainly has a high XP. He has good judgement and does not shoot unless very good opportunity or no other choice. He has attempted one shot every 10 mns this season. It's very low, he knows he can't shoot. So what's the relation with the first post ?

How do you interpret the differences in shooting percentages ?

we are talking about indicators, on bad shooting ;)

And if he takes shots, he ain't that bad ... And if he can get a good shot through his weak stamina, he won't take them like my linked player veltins. If he can and waste then a lot it is normally bad luck.

All right, I think we have extensively given our views and we have different interpretations.

I have always enjoyed reading your insights on the game and rate them highly.
But I'll stick to my own understanding this time :)

Thank you for the interesting conversation :p

Maybe you and Crazyeye are both right?

I really disagree with Crazyeye when it comes to stamina. If you force a guy with atrocious stamina to play the whole game, there are going to be consequences for it. And it doesn't just come at the end of the game. He needs to get off the court every quarter or his performance is going to get killed.

However, Crazeye is right that the GE will look for your best match-up. It does this based on your offensive flow and also the quality of chances you are getting in the game.

For the player in question here, I have to agree that stamina is a factor. Also a factor will be the quality of players around him.

Jump shot will only have a marginal impact for a centre, in my opinion. It is true that a higher jump shot skill (and outside shooting) will help him if he gets an opportunity to take a jump shot. But if he gets those looks, he can just pass them up until he gets an inside look instead.