BuzzerBeater Forums

An all Canadian Private League might be something to boost interest but I guess the tough thing is that only people who have upgraded their membership can join and they are usually the active ones.

Either way, maybe an I AM Canadian league would get a bit of banter going.

Some great ideas there. I will just point out that RIP has kind of always made the mentor system formalized. However, it has been dead for so long that maybe no one knows it is there.

Once I have some time, I will look at rewriting my U21 player message. It was originally meant to be a temporary measure, until RIP and I could agree on what we were going to do with the messages. But now that I have taken over the scouting (at least for now), I should really do something more permanent. Maybe I will float it by you once it is complete?

I am a newer user (this is my third season) so here are some random thoughts

I think that you make some great points here. I know that when I first started playing, I didn't really use the forums at all, because it was so difficult to find anything there. I also like the part you wrote about the simple advice you got from Jbmrock, as that's the general sort of advice that I have tried to give out myself (whenever anyone has asked me).

One thing that really helped me, as a new manager, is that I started out with a team full of very good defensive players (my five best overall players pretty much all had respectable defense). This caused my team to win almost every game, which was fun, so even though I didn't really do anything to improve my team (for my first whole season or so), I still had fun watching my team play. This kept me interested in the game near the beginning, and eventually, I starting learning more about how to manage my team, and really have had a great time playing Buzzer Beater.

A couple season ago, when I was still somewhat of a new player, I thought about the things that had made my team good right away. I wrote a guide about this, and shared the main points with several brand new players that I have mentored. However, I never really saw a good place to post a guide like this at the time, and just shared it with individual players that were interested.

Would anyone like me to post up a revised version of this guide, aimed at a player whose account was just activated? And if so, where would be the best place to post it? It might be helpful in building the user base, but I don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated. :)

~The Mogul

Would anyone like me to post up a revised version of this guide, aimed at a player whose account was just activated? And if so, where would be the best place to post it? It might be helpful in building the user base, but I don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

~The Mogul

I would be interested in seeing your guide - you certainly found a way to advance in BB very quickly. I personally think if you post it, it should be on the Canadian BB forum somewhere. Either that, or on a part of the off-site forum that is public. At the moment, there are very few people signed up for the off-site forum, and I gather that none of them are newbies.

re: Reading box scores
I didn't mean to imply that I really get the game engine or how the GE is reflected in box scores, I am just saying that when you first start playing those rating make absolutely 100% no sense at all (as opposed to now making very little sense). You're not sure if it's a 10.0 scale or a 20.0 scale or no scale or anything and many people have a hard time understanding that box scores are solely dependend on one skill on one player (a player who scores 40 points does it because of his own shooting but also because of his teammates' passing and his opponents' defense).

One thing that astounds me both from my two friends who started playing and from reading the help board is the number of people who are totally confused about the very basics. i.e. failing to recognize that playing a point guard with low handling and passing will result in the point guard taking a disproportionate number of shots since they'll be stuck with the ball at the end of the shotclock and higher passing means it's more likely that your good scorers will shoot the ball. Another example is players who are buzzled about why their shooting guard can score 30 points and get a 4.0 rating (not realizing they had atrocious OD and their opponent's SG was also terrible at OD)
Further, the basics of figuring out that if your opponent plays run and gun but shoots 2-22 from three point territory and have outside scoring a full level below inside scoring it does not mean you automatically need to go 1-3-1 or 3-2 on them (this is a problem for people who get the very basics but don't think it through).

re: "Win Now" advice
I think that winning promotion out of Div. 4 (which means getting into a division with way fewer bots which means more confidence and more fun) can involve some advice which is not detrimental to the long term health of a team (ask my if I feel the same way in two seasons when we'll determine if my team has long term health). Basic things like when choosing between buying a 4k salary player with respectable OD and decent other skills or one with respectable jump shot and less than decent other skills go with the one with the defense, or that you can pick up deals (i.e. under $10k) players by buying older and/or low potential players.
Your guide is really good and I am not trying to be critical. I am just suggesting that in terms of players just starting out, telling them, for example, that playing 48-70 minutes a week for game shape purposes is good advice, but great advice would be to explain to them how exactly to get that many minutes. It's common sense to me now (i.e. I either start a guy two games or play him 48 minutes one game and back up in the second game) but I can't emphasize how confusing this was to me for the first few weeks and how confusing it was for my friends until I explained it to them.
I know one shouldn't sacrifice a good foundation for short term success, but I think a lot of players quit because they struggle so much at the beginning. There's no point in building strong foundations if the team doesn't exist at all long term.

Furthermore, a lot of teams are interested in either producing NT prospects or getting to division 1. A lot of advice on the forums seems to geared towards players interested in doing one, or both, of those things. I think a lot of players just want to win some games, get to division three or maybe two and fool around with the game. For example, my roommate wants to stay in division three and train up some scorers who are capable of, and I quote, "embarrass the serious teams." (I think he means me). I think a lot of these players can be convinced that being a bit more ambitious can be fun, but I think initial contact with them needs to not make it sounds like the only reason to play this game is to benefit the national team or to try to dethrone BC Torooo (which is of course an exaggeration on my parts)

(continued)

Before I continue ranting I just want to emphasize how friendly the users in this game are. I kind of expected the forums to be more hostile and things to be more competitive when I first joined. This isn't meant to be overly critical, just observations from someone who is a few months removed from being a totally new player and who has tried to help friends make sense of the game. I'm just throwing stuff out there.

re: Formalizing Mentoring
I guess the scrimmage idea doesn't work, primarily because it is about gameshape/training minute management, but I think there needs to be something more concrete. When you're a new player to the game you don't even really know what to ask more experienced players. Maybe there should be something like a shortlist of questions of new managers which the mentoree should fill in and send to the new mentor (Do you want your team to be based around guards or big men? What are your goals for this season? Do you understand how training works? or something)


By way of analogy (which, as is true of most analogies, may make things more confusing rather than less):
I am a graduate student and instructor in history at a mostly undergraduate school in Canada. I spent a lot of time explaining footnotes to my first year students before their first essay was due. I explained why we footnote, when to footnote (paraphrasing and direct quotation, discursive, historiographical, etc.), how to properly format footnotes, etc. When I got the papers back to mark it occurred to me that most students didn't know that when using a word processor you can click "insert-->reference-->footnote" and it will put in the superscripted number and create a field at the bottom of the page and instead just typed in the number in 12 point font, put the number in brackets, super scripted it themselves manually and then typed the note at the bottom of the page, or actually wrote in all the footnotes by hand with a pen.

I got so caught up in explaining the big picture stuff that I failed to provide the simple technical details of how to actually implement it since I assumed they already knew. In some ways I feel like trying to figure out this game in your first season is similar.
(sorry if that was more confusing than helpful)

I joined BB in season 3 or 4. I don't post because one of two things happen when I post:

1) nothing. Nobody responds, replies, and the thread dies.

2) abuse. People telling me I'm wrong, or I don't know what I'm doing.

So I keep my opinions to myself.

I joined BB in season 3 or 4. I don't post because one of two things happen when I post:

1) nothing. Nobody responds, replies, and the thread dies.

2) abuse. People telling me I'm wrong, or I don't know what I'm doing.

So I keep my opinions to myself.

Sorry that you feel that way. From a personal standpoint, sometimes I get too excited about the game and that's why things get heated. And I hope that none of the Naismith chatter recently has made you feel that way. I like to talk trash, but I hope it is understood that it is all in good fun. Well, AM gets me going sometimes but only because I'm still pissed that he sent me down to division II not too long ago. ;-)

I personally did not understand why you told me to "give my head a shake" a week or so ago. But we have a great rivalry and I respect you as a manager.

PS Our game on Tuesday is a must win for me, but I'm really struggling to set my tactics.

Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 12/27/2009 10:10:29 PM

I read your post and it is quite interesting. I actually would find it very interesting if you or someone else could start a series here in the Canada forum. Something like "a beginner's tip of the week" or something like that. You could start to give the exact type of advice that you describe above.

On the other hand, that kind of duplicates the purpose of the help forums and that's the first place I would point any new user (I still go in there because I am always learning something new).

Furthermore, a lot of teams are interested in either producing NT prospects or getting to division 1. A lot of advice on the forums seems to geared towards players interested in doing one, or both, of those things.

I understand this point and I agree with it. I do agree with Sling's point that the Canadian forums have in general been dead. The only reason you are being hit over the head with nothing else is no one bothers to post anything else. Personally, I only have so much time and until I am no longer the U21 manager, you probably will not see me posting much other than U21 topics.

I was pretty happy to see thepuckcollector start a Cup thread recently. We need more stuff like that.



Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 12/27/2009 10:54:11 PM