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Clutch scorers

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This Post:
11
211641.18 in reply to 211641.17
Date: 3/1/2012 2:03:56 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1010
I do not like this suggestion. Every possession my offense is supposed to go down the court and find the best shot available against the defense. If my best shooter doesnt get the shot, that means a better shot was available or the defense did not allow him to get the ball. Making him take the shot despite that results in either a terrible shot or a TO.

What would be interesting is a clutch tactic. For instance, down by 7 with two to go--->switch to RnG
or something along those lines would be interesting

This Post:
00
211641.19 in reply to 211641.16
Date: 3/6/2012 3:09:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
if it should make sense, not. Since you are looking at a complex system, with most likely different option maybe it is easy if you say:

if ( clutchscorer) {take every shoot including those from halfcourt, with a double team}
else {don't shoot}

you need to consider so many parameter like shot clock, passing oppurtunities, own oppurtunity ... And so much more, who are affecting each other and aren't just some if clauses. I doubt that the current ge just calculates prohability to shoot:
PG:20%(*shot prohability formula) SG: 20% ... where you could raise just the prohabilty of sg shooting to 50 and the rest to 12,5, and then make a random decision. that would be easy, but everything said and ge behaviour lead me to another view of the engine.8and even then you have to adjust the prohability formula to a reasonable value, since when you force a shot it get much worse then when you play for the best one).

Currently the code is something like that:

While((DribbleProbability(playerWithBall) > Z)
{
if(TakingA-ShotProbability(playerWithBall) > X)
{
ThrowTheBall();
}
Otherwise if(DrivingProbability(playerWithBall) > Y)
{
PerformDriving();
}
otherwise
{
PassTheBall();
}
}

Each probability is derived from random parameters and skills.
A player with higher experience will take a shot when has better chance (as described on the manual).
The suggestion will just add to that parameters.
The calculation of that probability will be higher in case the player with the ball is the one who had been defined as the clutch player... at the clutch moments.

And as always, this is not really something never heard of, or out of nowhere, but just what exactly happens at a real BB game.

This Post:
00
211641.20 in reply to 211641.18
Date: 3/6/2012 3:13:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
Not true.
Each player has its probability to take his shot upon his stats.
BUT...
At the clutch time you may want that the clutch player will take a larger percentage of the shots.

This is exactly what happens in a real game.
The ball will not go to Fisher at the last seconds, but will go to Kobe much more often compared to the rest of the game.

This Post:
00
211641.21 in reply to 211641.20
Date: 3/6/2012 3:19:29 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
but i bet this also happen during the game, and how Fisher earned his nick them?

This Post:
00
211641.22 in reply to 211641.21
Date: 3/6/2012 3:32:41 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
but i bet this also happen during the game, and how Fisher earned his nick them?

What happens????

Are you really saying that on clutch time, the clutch shots will have higher percentage for Fisher (comparing to Bryant) compared to the shots spreading during the rest of the game?!?!?

And just that the words will not be something to play around...
Are you claiming that (for instance) if Bryant take 40% of all shots during the game, he will take exactly that at the clutch moments???
Answer - No way.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 3/6/2012 3:36:09 PM

This Post:
00
211641.23 in reply to 211641.22
Date: 3/6/2012 4:26:59 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
406406
If you have LaBron on your team probability is high that he WONT take the last shot despite being the best player, so?

This Post:
00
211641.24 in reply to 211641.23
Date: 3/6/2012 5:43:25 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
If you have LaBron on your team probability is high that he WONT take the last shot despite being the best player, so?
Great example that proves me right.
Miami, in spite of Lebron being that great of a player, will prefer that the ball will be less on his hands at the clutch minutes.
The amount of shots is not equal during clutch minutes compared to the rest of the game.

You just brought (in addition of proving me right) another point that had already been raised on another suggestion:
A player should have a (hidden?) skill that defines how better/worse he will be on those clutch minutes.
And those two suggestions (current thread suggestion, and the one at the line above) are parallel.

Last edited by Pini פיני at 3/6/2012 5:45:37 PM

This Post:
00
211641.25 in reply to 211641.24
Date: 3/7/2012 2:07:06 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
406406
You just brought (in addition of proving me right) another point that had already been raised on another suggestion:
A player should have a (hidden?) skill that defines how better/worse he will be on those clutch minutes.


XP is said to be that skill.

This Post:
00
211641.26 in reply to 211641.25
Date: 3/7/2012 5:03:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
You just brought (in addition of proving me right) another point that had already been raised on another suggestion:
A player should have a (hidden?) skill that defines how better/worse he will be on those clutch minutes.


XP is said to be that skill.
No it is not (in the real world).
Lebron now is far worse clutch player than Jordan at his first season in the NBA (for example)...

Yes - experience adds to the (same) formula. A more experience player will take better shots, but it is not equal to the probability to actually make those shot.
Again:
EXP raises the threshold to make shots, which means that an experience player will take LESS shots at clutch time.
Clutch player will shoot with HIGHER percentage at those clutch moments. [Not less shots, but higher percentage].

This Post:
00
211641.27 in reply to 211641.26
Date: 3/7/2012 5:19:06 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
406406
Dude, what do I care about the real world.

XP is said to help in clutch situations in this game, what do I care about LaBron or Jordon...

This Post:
00
211641.28 in reply to 211641.27
Date: 3/7/2012 5:31:52 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
105105
Dude, what do I care about the real world.

XP is said to help in clutch situations in this game, what do I care about LaBron or Jordon...
I guess two examples are not enough...

Experience is being told to give that player take better shots (meaning, lesser shots he will not take).
We will continue with examples about "EXP"...
If a player will take shots with 50% chance (for example), an EXP player will take only those with 60% chance (for example). Meaning, those extra 10% shots will not be taken and he will pass the ball.
This is nothing to be related to the definition of a clutch player.

A clutch player raises its performance.
Meaning, a player who shoots 50% (for example) on average (and w/o breaking it to ranges), will shoot 60% on clutch moments (for example).
He will not take LESS shots, but will make those he takes with better percentage.

I can't explain better than that.

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