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Scrimmage Game Engine Feedback v2

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87048.182 in reply to 87048.180
Date: 6/9/2009 2:13:34 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
I agree with Bobby.

Seriously. The game has to grow. The big issue is with defense. Defense in old GE is a Man - Man with a bonus in ID or OD defending on the zone. This is just wrong and weird.

The new game engine wasn't 100% but it is a real zone where the Defense plays a spot on the court rather than a man.

I will be really sad if these new changes don't come in. To be teased with such great things and gave them taken away forever?

Please don't let these changes disappear.

This Post:
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87048.183 in reply to 87048.182
Date: 6/9/2009 5:03:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
329329
The new changes are, as usual, very convenient for the improvement of the game. The problem is not the changes themselves, but the result we have all seen last saturday. I don´t think that a few more passing or a few faster pace could account for the observed results. There is probably some mistake or a bug like the one observed at the beginning at scrimmages (OD ratings using the RB skills instead of OD rating).

Some message are maybe not very helpful for BBs, but other with describes the strage things that happened last saturday, are probably really important for them in order to get our feedback of what was happening.

So, a better zone defense is good for everybody, but only if this is properly implemented. Now, we don´t know what exactly was the problem, so the only thing we can do is reporting the problem we observed.

Debate is not about changes yes or not, but whether changes were working as expected or not.

¡Me aburro! (Homer Simpson)
This Post:
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87048.184 in reply to 87048.183
Date: 6/9/2009 5:32:47 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
308308
The most shocking is that using the old GE the score could be 90-70 and that means you have good offense and good defense, now the scores could be 130-110, but although the adventage was the same, seem that your attack had improved and your defense is gone.

Perhaps it is pace, as you said, need to be improved, because having so many possessions, playing zone defense, centers defend a perimeter shoting too many times, a perimeter player try to stop a rival driving of centers or PF its too many times, fouls in these events are too hight, so the live shock people too.

Last edited by GM-Zuper at 6/9/2009 5:33:35 AM

This Post:
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87048.185 in reply to 87048.184
Date: 6/9/2009 6:33:59 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
506506
but although the adventage was the same, seem that your attack had improved and your defense is gone.


As Charles said in another post about this problem, this is not right. (post nr 119 in this thread)

3) One of the issues that has always existed in this engine is that the pace is too high; the typical NBA game has about 95 possessions, while in BuzzerBeater that number is often closer to 120. In the past, there have been too many possessions compared to an NBA game but also too much defense. We were trying to fix these things one step at a time in order to reduce the number of changes that come in all at the same time, and it's evident that the end result is that people are looking at the scores and saying their defense doesn't work anymore. I disagree; defense that concedes 101 points in 126 possessions, as I saw in the case of somebody who was complaining about the game engine, is actually quite good defense. It's just the 126 possessions that are fooling you.

This Post:
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87048.186 in reply to 87048.185
Date: 6/9/2009 7:04:31 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
329329
As a human person, Charles may be wrong, and I bet he is very interesting in receiving our feedback about the changes. This is the goal of this thread.

There are many examples in the short history of BB, of bugs that were not recognized by the developers in the first moment.

It seems clear to me that no matter what defense you have, the result was similar in last saturday matches.

57 - 98 is too much for an offensive team playing against another team with a excellent defense.
59 - 106 is too much scoring for a defensive team with low attack.

So two different teams obtaining very similar good results in very bad conditions does not seem very balanced.


Last edited by Emilio at 6/9/2009 7:05:02 AM

¡Me aburro! (Homer Simpson)
This Post:
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87048.187 in reply to 87048.185
Date: 6/9/2009 7:21:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
308308
I read this before. But the feeling was my attack had improved and my defense is gone, because in the old GE my maximun score was 100, now i can score 120 playing TIE.

Message deleted
This Post:
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87048.190 in reply to 87048.189
Date: 6/9/2009 4:15:29 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
303303
Why not begin implementation in NT


Yeah, no.

I'd rather have a "correct" engine for games when it's 5 games determining advancement or not.

NO ONE at this table ordered a rum & Coke
Charles: Penn has some good people
A CT? Really?
Any two will do
Any three for me
Any four will score
Any five are live
From: chihorn
This Post:
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87048.191 in reply to 87048.190
Date: 6/9/2009 9:26:35 PM
New York Chunks
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
952952
I'm a vote for checking for bugs and making sure it's absolutely what is intended before rolling it back out. (Maybe run a bunch of arcade games offline and see what happens after a large enough sample size to see if the effects are what are sought.)

In my season opener, I lost against a team I'd beaten in all 5 previous meetings. Not since our first game against each other in Season 7 had I beaten him by less than 10 points. Neither of went TIE or CT, it was on his court, and I lost by 6 points shooting 37% from the floor (37-100), the worst shooting I'd done in a long long time (maybe ever?). Our teams combined for a whopping 126 rebounds (and a healthy 48 assists). While it's not impossible for my team to have lost the game, I have to look at the stats and wonder if something screwy in the engine accounted for my loss.

Don't ask what sort of Chunks they are, you probably don't want to know. Blowing Chunks since Season 4!
This Post:
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87048.192 in reply to 87048.191
Date: 6/10/2009 3:38:58 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
459459
It was 38 assists, actually. And, your perimeter defense was inept (low) versus motion and an outside scoring of average (high). To make matters worse, his inside d was mediocre (high) against your look inside and inside scoring of mediocre (low). The outcome really doesn't seem to be out of whack in any way to me. 60 rebounds per team is pretty common for BB games in my experience. Maybe the Renegades have been training defense or their manager bought some new players. I wouldn't blame this one on the GE.

Once I scored a basket that still makes me laugh.
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