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So you prefer to have competition between your conference than competition between conferences!

I understand what you mean by character but the team will not change division, only conference!

Plus, I think that conferences where you have the champion will have more probability of receiving someone from the upper division which means they will still be stronger (if we assume that there is a high chance of the relegated team to promote again). But because I can't tell this without numbers, I had a look into the Portuguese division III over the last 6 seasons and check whether we have continuous champions from the same conference in all the divisions.

This are the results (R for red conference and B for blue conference)

League 1 - R-R-B-R-R-R     (83% Red)
League 2 - R-B-R-R-R-R     (83% Red)
League 3 - B-R-R-B-R-R     (67% Red)
League 4 - R-B-R-R-R-R     (83% Red)
League 5 - R-R-R-B-B-R     (67% Red)
League 6 - B-R-B-R-R-B     (50% Red)
League 7 - B-B-B-R-B-B     (83% Blue)
League 8 - R-R-R-R-R-B     (83% Red)
League 9 - R-R-R-B-B-R     (67% Red)
League 10 - R-R-R-R-R-R     (100% Red)
League 11 - R-B-R-R-R-R     (83% Red)
League 12 - B-R-B-R-B-B     (50% Red)
League 13 - R-B-B-R-R-R     (67% Red)
League 14 - R-B-B-B-R-R     (50% Red)
League 15 - B-R-R-R-R-R     (83% Red)
League 16 - R-B-B-R-R-B     (50% Red)

A quick look will tell you that only 4 leagues out of 16 had half of his champions from both conferences. 7 out of 16 (almost 50%) leagues had 5 times a champion from one of the conferences in 6 seasons. And... just because it is funny to mention, 64 out of the 96 (67%) champions were from the Red conference!

Another interesting fact is that most of the times, the champion team is from the same conference of the last champion of that same division (aproximatly 70% of the times)!

Of course this is really a small sample but I do believe it could be the same in most of the countries. Or maybe I am wrong and Portugal just likes Red to much (Benfica xD)

Last edited by Killer Penguin at 3/29/2010 1:38:25 PM

did you know the expected number is 3.5 of those leagues should have a champion from one of the conferences 5 or more times? So really if just 3 championship games turned out a different result it would be the expected number of events?

I know it sounds unlikely when you say one side won 5 out of 6 times, but you are counting it also unlikely when the other side wins 5 out of 6... and really when you are flipping coins... 5 out of 6 heads or tails really isn't that unlikely. 11% of the time you get at least 5 out of 6 heads, and since you are counting both 5/6 heads and 5/6 tails, its really 22%.

Look,if you want to shuffle them every season, then would be better to not have conferences at all and just have 1 table like in football league.

When I saw this conference system at first, I was happy to have it here, because it even create an opportunity to focus more on just few key teams to beat down and the playoff is yours.

Your red paranoea is based just on that there has to be probability that it should be like 50/50 in overall but it is not. Well I can tell you that teams are not just a numbers, I would be very suprised if there would be the equilibrium. I can understand that it sounds scarry if you look at it by this way, but these things happens, it is just a collor, thats all.

now i will say on the other hand.. the R conference winning 64 out of 96 times is significant.

that should only happen .03% of the time!

maybe the red color has some psychological effect on the spanish and they feel stronger being on the red team.. where as the blue conference makes them think of italy, and therefore makes them feel weak.

I remember reading about a study about the calming effects of blue..except for in males in italy because blue reminds them of their soccer team and it makes them excited rather than calm.

Maybe red collor attracts the capability.

now i will say on the other hand.. the R conference winning 64 out of 96 times is significant.

that should only happen .03% of the time!

maybe the red color has some psychological effect on the spanish and they feel stronger being on the red team.. where as the blue conference makes them think of italy, and therefore makes them feel weak.

We are portuguese
But we do have more red on the flag than the other colours!


Of course we shouldn't just rely on number and actually I only looked into 6 seasons in the III division. But I know that teams that have a stronger conference will put more effort on the maintenance and therefore will also have better teams than the other conference. And my guess is that is why we have teams winning always from the same conference. As I said.. 70% of the teams that win the division are from the same conference as the last champion! (For Division III in Portugal in the last 6 seasons)

But the conferences also state with which teams you'll play twice!

I am just pointing out that I do feel there is not an equilibrium! And again.. I may be wrong due to my small sample!

I don't have a red paranoea, I just counted the teas that win from each colour. It was just funny to realiza that most of them were from the red conference!

I pointed on that, because in present system of Revenue, especially Attendance Revenue, it could happen sooner or later in every country if there are no bots. Only in my eyes our country reached this equilibrum earlier than the others. For example in Slovakia there have been several bots in last 3 seasons among top managers (2 of 4 best team ended), but some of them left the game according to lost of motivation, because there were still one of 4 teams even if their effort was lower.
I really don't think all this 9 teams in our country I mentioned are still here because of running better, but because of staying in Div I for long time and have much better conditions, well-balanced rosters because of permanently higher budget. I think if some of them change the team (hypothetically) with some top Div II manager, they will stay in their positions and not change the position, because they are managers of similar level of managing abilities.

I pointed on that, because in present system of Revenue, especially Attendance Revenue, it could happen sooner or later in every country if there are no bots. Only in my eyes our country reached this equilibrum earlier than the others. For example in Slovakia there have been several bots in last 3 seasons among top managers (2 of 4 best team ended), but some of them left the game according to lost of motivation, because there were still one of 4 teams even if their effort was lower.
I really don't think all this 9 teams in our country I mentioned are still here because of running better, but because of staying in Div I for long time and have much better conditions, well-balanced rosters because of permanently higher budget. I think if some of them change the team (hypothetically) with some top Div II manager, they will stay in their positions and not change the position, because they are managers of similar level of managing abilities.

I have something to add - I have just recieved my first gate receipts this season after relegation - $ 198 670 and that is after winning previous league game (by 18) and after reaching quaterfinals in the cup previous season. That is about 300k less than I usually got last season. I posted in bug forums because I have arena with more than 18k seats and there were problems related to that at the beginning of Season 11. Otherwise I would have to consider that number a bad joke. Since unbalanced conferences I had no chance to stay above, it is not my fault I was relegated - I actually tanked whole half of the season to get the very first pick of the draft as there was nothing else to compete for. Now the game is officaily telling me it doesn't want me to have a fair shot to close the gap. I will lose more money in gate receipts (in comparison to what I was getting the last time I was in Div 2) than what I got by promotion bonus. Only because strongly better gate receipts and favourable draft order it was economically worth it to get promoted. Having fun wise, surely not.

Editing: typoes and styling

Last edited by docend24 at 3/30/2010 2:52:43 PM

I think you need to adjust your ticket prices...
When the local soccer team in my town went from J2 to J1..They raised the ticket prices by 30% and then when they were relegated the next season, they dropped the prices again..
BTW,, I do think you are right in the fact that, the difference from the top division to the 2nd division is too great..They should look at teams in the EPL, Leeds united were relegated but they still sell out their arena every week..I think they need to right in a code for years of existence, where a season 5 teams gets more than a season 8 team in the second Div. due to the fact that they have a bigger fan base due to the years in existence....peace