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Wouldn't that just be reflective of the curve that salarys take as the levels increase?

Sorry for the OT, anyway I think there is a relation between the salary and the skills trained. "Secondary" skills are not so important as defense for example and you can see this in the player posted here above. Then you can see in the team of Andrè that there is a difference in terms of results between the centers and the guards. Having good centers can give you more benefits than guards and as I've written before a center is much easier to be trained compare to a guard. Of course imho

Wouldn't that just be reflective of the curve that salarys take as the levels increase?

Yes I agree on this one, but the difference is just too big between a C and a G (can't keep telling this hehe, this is the last time haha )

At this moment it seems it would be much cheaper to build a purely outside based team, (even more since the strength of shooter improved) since those outside players stay well low at their salary but they do get nice ratings.

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 3/22/2008 8:06:07 AM

Can I ask, without wanting to annoy you with questions you have most likely answered already, what positions do you train?

If you are a guard trainer with guards who have 4x+ prom+ skill levels (or maybe better) who has seen this first hand then I will admit my wrong.

I train inside, and my opinions are based purely off the guards I have seen on the market who dont have the levels that my inside trainees do over the same amount of skills.

Until I see proof that a guard with say prom level JS, OD, HN, PA has a considerable lower salary than a center with prom level IS, ID & RDB I just dont see guards having lower salaries on a whole in comparison to inside players.

I realise that the inside players seem to be getting paid more but that could just show that the inside trainers are training their players properly instead of concentrating on improving the 1 skill (JS seems to be all the free agents have)

I can be swayed on this, but until i see the proof of a guard with the same number of skills as a centre with a considerable lower salary I am going to keep on thinking that it is due to the points I raised earlier.

I dont know why all center trainers start complaining suddenly.

it is way easier to train centers, cause u only have to train 4 skills, compared to 6 skills for a guard. Thats one reason why so many decided to train centers.

probably salaries will be measured by the average of their skills, while more important skills weight more heavily then the others. Therefore a guard with respectable JS and inept rebounding will have a higher salary then a guard with inept JS and respectable rebounding.
Considering this a center will obviously have a higher salary since the only have 4 very important skills.

so if one thing have got to change it is not that guards should have higher salaries, it is that guards need to train faster. then theier salaries will be as high as the salaries of the centers.
e.g. outside shooting trains also 80% Js and vice versa.

Then I see a guard with 13 JS and 9 JR who only got about 15k salary now.

you are missing something in your theory. rebounding will weight close to 25% in the center formula while JS will only weight about 16% in the formula for guards.

I found a perfect example to prove my point: Albert Diefenbach (3071008), just posted in the transfer ad topic. JS: 10, HD: 10, DR: 11, and only 9,4k salary. A center with 10 IS, 10 ID and 11 RB would have 20k+ salary.

yes it is a perfect example but it does NOT prove your point.

the guards is having an average of 7.8 on his most relevant skills.

JS 10
JR 7
oD 5
HA 10
Dr 11
Pa 4

47/6=7.83

a center from your example will have something close to 10. this explains the difference in the salary

Last edited by Huzzel at 3/22/2008 8:56:52 AM

I agree with huzzel on his point, why I asked to be shown a guard with 4 equal skills compared to the centers 3 equal skills.

I don't think your calculations are fair, let use mine I hope you have the time to read it, because it's pretty long.

First I don't think a guard really uses 6 as important skills, but 3 main and 3 extra, JS, JR and DR (SG 1st, PG 2nd) vs PA,HA and OD (PG 1st, SG 2nd)

But lets quit the skills part, the most important thing is how much a player contributes to the team performance right?
So lets talk about ratings from now on, instead of individual skills.

I will use our national team, Nederland, as the example.

We got 3 centers above 20k salary, the best guards got around 11k salary. We got 1 SF with 15k salary, and another C with 15k salary.

Then lets take a look at our match ratings;
Offense first, we played a lot of Push the Ball, which is a normal focus, so that should give a clear view about wether you are better inside or outside.
I checked the official games where we playing PtB this season;
In every game but one (the other one the offense is the same outside and inside) we had a better outside shooting than inside shooting (1 sublevel), remember salary's weren't even close.
So you pay double the salary to get 1 sublevel lower offense.

Ok now we will check our defense ratings, which is harder to compare of course since we have rebounding, and ID and PD. Lets skip rebounding for now (just like we do with the offensive flow), and look only at ID and PD.

We played vs inside teams the most, so mainly 2-3 zone, which is not usable when you want to compare PD vs ID but we did play a few man-to-man games.
The first man-to-man game ID was 1 sublevel higher than PD. The 2nd man-to-man game (after the guards improved some of their OD of course) the PD was 1 full level higher than the ID.

Now I can tell you our Centers' ID is way higher than the OD of our guards. But still we got a huge difference in the PD vs ID, while again the Centers got double as much salary as the guards.

Ok the rebounding is hard to compare just like the OF, but since the SG/PG and SF contributes the most to the OF and the C/PF and SF the most to rebounding we maybe could even those out.

Ok so now a summary. What we see is this:

It's easier to boost your outside ratings, as guards need lower stats to achieve the same ratings. Centers got way higher salary, since they need higher stats to achieve the same ratings.

So a with a few guards around 10k salary you get the same outside ratings as the inside ratings of a few centers around 20k salary.

The question is now what should change? It's clearly that guards are more powerfull, since they don't need a high salary to get high ratings.

Imo there something is not fair/right here, I hope you had the time to read this all, but I think or the difference of salary between guards and centers should be reduced, or the difference of skills needed to achieve the same ratings should be reduced.

Cheers and sorry for the long post
PatjeBono

Last edited by BB-Patrick at 3/22/2008 9:19:58 AM