BuzzerBeater Forums

For me it is obvious. Lex retro non agit.

and to me it wasn´t known before that a walkover is not awarded with a * in national team games

We can't punish other managers only because You (or any other manager) don't know how forfeits work in NT/U21 games.
We have better and worse managers in this game. If one NT/U21 manager put some effort to recognize how forfeits work in NT games and other NT/U21 manager didn't, for me first manager is better.
In this game we have many things which aren't described in rules, for example that Patient works like Isolation.
Of course this loophole with forfeits in NT/U21 should be fixed before starting of competitions in next season.

This was a bug. The manager exploited the use of a well-known bug, as have others in the past. This isn't like knowing what SB does/does not do because you haven't experimented with it before. Knowing a bug exists (and not reporting it) does not make you a better manager.
My only concern is that this sets a precedent, and managers will have an expectation that future bugs will not be handled retroactively; thereby incentivizing the exploitation of bugs instead of reporting it.

Please note that in past * didn't exist even in league and it wasn't bug, it was reality. And few seasons ago stars for WO were implemented in league and weren't implemented in NT games. It isn't only difference between club and NT competitions. So maybe there is only bug in manaual and sentence "stars exist only in league tables, not in NT tables" aren't added to manual?
I don't remember announcement in which stars were announced. Maybe there was information that stars will be implemented only in league?
It is possible.
Rule "We see that it works in this way for many seasons, to be sure I checked it" is more powerful than rule "I think it should work in this way but I didn't check it".
So we can't change rules after competition starts, even if it's unwritten rule.

I'm not overly happy with the current solution, nor would I be if we decided to fix the damn thing. It's a lose-lose situation so we had to choose the lesser evil.
Let's just try not to dwell on it and I'll make sure to fix it starting next season.

It looks like there doesn't exist better motivation to fix loophole than exploitation of this loophole ;-)

I agree, it is a loophole, but a well known one, that NT managers are well aware of. To fix it now and change the standings would mean a big change in the game environment that would affect all the decisions made by the NT managers. I stand by my decision; there will be no changes in the standings but you can expect some changes starting next season. Changes that will fix or render the loophole worthless to use.

I'm sorry that I'll ignore your warning about discussing this issue any further. And please ban me or throw me out of BB for all I care. It's nothing against your work - I appreciate it a great deal that you're so present here in the forums. But it is just not true that NT managers were aware of this loophole. I have been quite active during my 4 seasons as a U21-Manager and I've never stumbled across this issue in the forums. And in all the competitions that I took part in with the U21 a forfeit was never an issue for me. Especially not since in my opinion every NT should field some players in competitions - but that's besides the point. As Fresh24 pointed out, it was the exploiting of a bug. Which should be punised in my opinion. The only "fair" solution in my opinion would be to let neither Germany U21 nor England U21 advance to the next round and letting Bulgaria have a "free" game. Otherwise it seems to me that England is awarded for exploiting a bug. And I agree with Fresh24 that I would - given this precedent - think twice about reporting a bug that would otherwise help me.

This whole situation makes me very angry - and it's not any more about Germany U21 advancing to the next round but as a principle.

And finally @B.B.King: I play the game since season 11 and I don't remember not seeing any "*" in the standings. You play the game longer than I do - but for me the * have always been a reality. So why should I assume that this is not the case in the U21?

And finally @B.B.King: I play the game since season 11 and I don't remember not seeing any "*" in the standings. You play the game longer than I do - but for me the * have always been a reality. So why should I assume that this is not the case in the U21?

You joined in S11 so You were able to notice Malta position in this table (I metioned it earlier):
http://www.buzzerbeater.com/world/standings.aspx?teamid=1...
It was reality in Consolation Tournament in S17. It was U21 competition, You were even U21 Manager at those moment.
I never was U21 Manager, however I think that it is always good idea for U21 (and NT as well) Manager to look at other competitions, there is always chance to see something interesting or to find and to learn something important.

And yes, I agree it's loophole, bad loophole. However this loophole is rule and general rule for me is "rules can't be changed during competitions".

And finally @B.B.King: I play the game since season 11 and I don't remember not seeing any "*" in the standings. You play the game longer than I do - but for me the * have always been a reality. So why should I assume that this is not the case in the U21?

You joined in S11 so You were able to notice Malta position in this table (I metioned it earlier):
(http://www.buzzerbeater.com/world/standings.aspx?teamid=1...)
It was reality in Consolation Tournament in S17. It was U21 competition, You were even U21 Manager at those moment.
I never was U21 Manager, however I think that it is always good idea for U21 (and NT as well) Manager to look at other competitions, there is always chance to see something interesting or to find and to learn something important.

And yes, I agree it's loophole, bad loophole. However this loophole is rule and general rule for me is "rules can't be changed during competitions".

And there we disagree. I do not see why this is a rule as it is not stated anywhere in the rules other than the points I mentioned earlier. And if this game is based on rules that everyone should know about, them please discard the whole game manual. And make it even more "easy" for newcomers to understand the game and stick with it. Bravo. Good idea. (Sorry for the sarcastic last two sentences...)

I second this....The Walk Over screwed me as well....I finished right behind you in 34th place. I think England and Hong Kong should be punished because it was a TIE WO pact and that just sucks.