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Trade Feature (with Details)

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This Post:
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262158.19 in reply to 262158.17
Date: 8/18/2014 3:49:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
ok ill explain a bit more.

1) Economy and my linked post - If i spend $500k on players per season......, but then trading comes along and I trade instead, what do I do with my extra $500k per season? I would probablyl just run at a massive financial loss all season with a monster roster (which ive traded for)....which BTW, if you have ever experienced a league where normal rosters are $400k and two teams decide to have $1m rosters - its not fun
Alterantively, with my extra cash that im not spending on players because im trading, ill just spend more and more money on buying other players - so instead of paying $1m for that player, ill pay $2m, because ive got all this extra cash - this leads to Player inflation which is not good for anyone.
So I use that as an example to show that the current economic setup is very fragile to change. If you take away that exchange of money between two teams, its like closing the stock market for two weeks. financial chaos. its too fragile to implement something that would have an impact on the normal way the economy works.


2) Reason why teams trade in real life - I think we are actually agreeing here? My point that i was making is that in real life, most teams trade for contractual reasons (ie: What you said) - but there are no contracts in BB, there are no disgruntled players whom i need to offload - i dont have an expiring contracted player who will be a free agent next season ....so ...... why trade again? The reasons to trade in real life are massive, compared to the reasons in BB.

3) So cheating occurs, it occurs now. Back in the day i remember seeing the site home page declaring ridiculous banning numbers, something like 200 users banned in a single week. I also remember reading bout how it was cheating 'syndicates' - groups of people of about 30-40, who all had work and home computers and created duel teams and transfered with each other such that the paper trail was so long, and they were all helping national teams and etc etc etc. and it took BB a whole year to track them all down. Was pretty interesting actually...
So cheating occurs. ..... a lot........ So bringing in another facility which would actually be even harder for BB's to track as a 'cheating' transaction - not good. not good at all. In fact, probably the death of the game.

So I hope ive cleared that all up for you.

This Post:
00
262158.21 in reply to 262158.20
Date: 8/18/2014 9:08:41 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
yes this is essentially a situation where, BB's won't be able to monitor 'unfair' trades. If a noob comes along, and you're able to trade for his good players, whilst giving him rubbish, then there is no way that BB can monitor this.

We already have this problem where noobs spend their starting money on over-priced players, but at least there is some formulae for BB's to monitor these sales, and if they breach the sale limit/TPE, then they can pick up some of these.

But having trading would certainly increase the ability for people to just troll noobs for trades and perform bad trades.

and your example here is really about this.

This Post:
00
262158.22 in reply to 262158.20
Date: 8/18/2014 1:32:30 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6363
I'll trade my tall 19 y old draftee SG with OD at 2, potential benchwarmer for your 18 y old draftee PF with 4/5 in OD/Passing and nothing too bad for inside skills, potential HOF. You can't refuse because you are me or a friend of a friend. And this will go unnoticed since the trade can be accepted, signed and done in 5 minutes top.

Since they have similar salary, it works within your restrictions.


I saw a similar example of a bad trade in the other thread. I don't understand it. Your problem is that the trade is unfair? I can't refuse because of real life obligations? This does not sound like a problem to me. This is a manager making a bad management choice. I thought the whole point of the game was to manage a team. It doesn't really matter if I manage it well or not unless you are going to have good managers "taking over" bad managers teams for them, since they suck at managing. It would be nice if all managers were competent, but 49.9% of all people are below average.

There is currently nothing that prevents the exact same thing from happening where, instead of a trade, the player buys a crappy SG off the TL for 25K and sells his amazing PF for 1k. It's true that his friend may not get the PF, but even if his friend traded for him, under my idea, that is the only trade they can do with each other for the entire season.

This Post:
00
262158.23 in reply to 262158.21
Date: 8/18/2014 1:40:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6363
yes this is essentially a situation where, BB's won't be able to monitor 'unfair' trades. If a noob comes along, and you're able to trade for his good players, whilst giving him rubbish, then there is no way that BB can monitor this.

We already have this problem where noobs spend their starting money on over-priced players, but at least there is some formulae for BB's to monitor these sales, and if they breach the sale limit/TPE, then they can pick up some of these.

But having trading would certainly increase the ability for people to just troll noobs for trades and perform bad trades.

and your example here is really about this.


If it's really about protecting the poor helpless noobs, BB should not allow them to buy new players for the first season they play. Then they can't make any bad roster choices. Actually, BB should also have someone from a higher league run their team for them, just in case they make bad lineup choices or always pick the GDP wrong. The whole point of playing the game is to be a manager. It doesn't say anything on the signup page about having to be good at it.

It would be difficult under my idea for a player to get 'rubbish' in return for a player on their roster since the salaries have to be similar. Yes, you could get a player that is not optimal in return for your better player, but that is why the option to trade has Accept and Reject buttons. As the selling manager, you get to decide if the deal is actually good for your team or not and Reject it if it isn't. Heck, the noob manager could even go to the forums and ask for a mentor to find out if he is getting conned or not.

This Post:
00
262158.24 in reply to 262158.19
Date: 8/18/2014 1:53:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6363
1) Economy


If i spend $500k on players per season......, but then trading comes along and I trade instead, what do I do with my extra $500k per season?


I see BB has made strides to address this issue in the latest changes to the draft with adding new features that cost money to use. I would assume BB would continue making changes such as these to address the glut of money in the system. Maybe add new coaches that cost salary every week or unlock the supporter feature for logos and banners and instead charge teams money to purchase a logo and/or a banner. Or add jerseys and charge teams to design them.

I would probablyl just run at a massive financial loss all season with a monster roster (which ive traded for)....which BTW, if you have ever experienced a league where normal rosters are $400k and two teams decide to have $1m rosters - its not fun


Under my idea, if you have traded for your whole roster, you would have money and a roster of players worth less than the roster you started with. You can never trade for a player that is worth more than a player you already have. But, then you could go on the TL and spend your extra money for a superstar. I didn't make any changes to the TL, so that is still an option.

Alterantively, with my extra cash that im not spending on players because im trading, ill just spend more and more money on buying other players - so instead of paying $1m for that player, ill pay $2m, because ive got all this extra cash - this leads to Player inflation which is not good for anyone.
So I use that as an example to show that the current economic setup is very fragile to change. If you take away that exchange of money between two teams, its like closing the stock market for two weeks. financial chaos. its too fragile to implement something that would have an impact on the normal way the economy works.


Managers are doing this already. One guy boasted in USA chat during the last live game that he sold his whole roster for 3.5 million. He figured he was in 8th place and was going down a league anyway, so now he has 3.5 million to spend on whatever player he wants. Will he be banned for cheating if he overbids? Why? The TL gave him 3.5 mil for his roster.

In my idea, he could have traded his high dollar players away for lower salary guys that will still help him in the lower league and have money leftover to buy a few points for the upcoming draft so he can use some of those nifty new features. He wouldn't have 3.5 mil to throw around and he would still have a team that is competitive.

This Post:
00
262158.25 in reply to 262158.19
Date: 8/18/2014 2:01:45 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6363

3) So cheating occurs, it occurs now. Back in the day i remember seeing the site home page declaring ridiculous banning numbers, something like 200 users banned in a single week. I also remember reading bout how it was cheating 'syndicates' - groups of people of about 30-40, who all had work and home computers and created duel teams and transfered with each other such that the paper trail was so long, and they were all helping national teams and etc etc etc. and it took BB a whole year to track them all down. Was pretty interesting actually...
So cheating occurs. ..... a lot........ So bringing in another facility which would actually be even harder for BB's to track as a 'cheating' transaction - not good. not good at all. In fact, probably the death of the game.
So I hope ive cleared that all up for you.


I don't see how my idea would actually allow these syndicates to cheat any more effectively than they could if they use the TL. Players would still transfer from team to team, just like they do under the TL. BB would still track which teams they went to, just like they do now. Since my idea uses the existing transfer structure already in the game, the existing anti-cheating mechanisms would still be just as effective.

The only thing that I think my idea is missing is a cooldown on how often a player can be traded. Let me add that in real quick. This would stop someone from trading a guy from team to team to team quickly until he gets where he wants him to be.

This Post:
00
262158.27 in reply to 262158.25
Date: 8/18/2014 11:31:28 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
I don't see how my idea would actually allow these syndicates to cheat any more effectively than they could if they use the TL.


Lets walk through a scenario.

I, being me, one person - start up 10 new teams on 10 different computers that I have access to at various locations, different IP's and different email addresses.

My new teams all start with a bunch of rookies, and generally, you start with at least one good rookie. 18 or 19 Superstar potential at least.
I trade amongst the 10 teams until all the good rookies are on one team - this will be my main team. I don't trade directly from the 9 teams to one parent team, i perform multi-stepped trades such that a player goes from team A, to team B, to Team C, then to Team Alpha (main team).
Because i can trade and accept trades straight away, i can perform all these actions in a few hours. None of the trade restrictions will prevent me from trading young players because their salary and skill sets will all be similar, and even then, I can trade slightly less-potential players for better potential players and no one will blink an eye (who cares about a $3k salary 18 year old Per-allstar being traded for an 18 year old $3k salary all-star potential.).

So I now have my main team with all the good rookies on it. I don't log All 18/19 year old superstars or better potential. i start listing them one at a time on the transfer market for $300k each, and bam. in one week or so, I now have $2m in the bank.
Cheating....

THIS is why trading will never be allowed in BB. And unfortunately, there is no restriction, or method that can be put in place, which can monitor trades effectively to stop trades. There IS however mechanisms in place which can stop and monitor transfers. Its not perfect, but it helps.


This Post:
00
262158.28 in reply to 262158.27
Date: 8/18/2014 11:47:39 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
6363
Because i can trade and accept trades straight away, i can perform all these actions in a few hours.


I have updated my idea with a 5 game league game requirement. This would help in the prevention of these super teams.

This Post:
00
262158.29 in reply to 262158.28
Date: 8/19/2014 12:16:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
So i can do it in 3 weeks.

3 weeks to be a millionaire. it still cheating.

And what are you proposing for new players? That they can't trade at all? Or transfer players at all? Im sorry, but if i joined this game and was not able to perform tese functions simply because i was new, id quit straight away.

and so would ever other new user, so im sorry but that is not an acceptable work around.

And the other point is that you have not answered my very first question:
- What benefit does this bring to the game? How does it make the game better? How does it improve my experience? How does it make me achieve something that i cannot achieve now?

So just answer this - How is trading players going to improve the game?

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