BuzzerBeater Forums

I don't think building bleachers are the issue...its the 3.5 million you have to pay for 5k more LT when you go from 15k/5k to 15k/10k.

Maybe I am not getting something about building that many bleachers. Even if you set max prices for the bleachers, there are probably a lot of people in that 15k-17k bleacher section that could potentially afford a more expensive LT seat

I understand it's a widely accepted thing, but I just don't buy it. I watch separate sections separately.

Just do the math this way:

Let's say you have maximum success(Teradata Pakistan model, hypothetically achievable in other non bot countries)

You can sell 18k bleachers at 20, that's 360k

You sell 2k LT at 70, that's 140k

Now let's consider 13k/7k build, which is somewhat accepted as the ideal.

13k*20=260k

Now you need to sell 7k LT at 34 price? Is it achievable in top leagues?

Now cut back bleachers even more, consider 10k/10k build

10k bleachers * 20 = 200k

Now you need to sell 10k LT at 30 price?

The point is: yes, there are some in the bleacher section that would buy cheaper LT, but you are losing on LT section fans who are willing to pay high price for LT

This leads me to conclusion that the best arena build is: to build as much bleachers as you can sell them at 20(maximum price)

So maybe in div II you can earn the most with a 10k/10k arena, or having mild success in div I, you're best off having a 12k/8k, or 14k/7k,

but ultimately, the more bleachers you can sell at high price, the less lower tiers you need.

Yesterday I was having a look at the first home league game of B3 participants that also got to the league finals last season.
The team with more income I found was this:
15k/6k fay_stelaios: 268k+236k+89k+42k=635k
Followed by:
17k/4k Augustiner 75ers: 312k+188k+88k+42k=630k
Third was:
17k/3k Brutus Buckeye: 324k+175k+85k+36k=620k (could be 630k if the right prices in courtside seats and luxury boxes).

I found if you have a small LT you can sell as much as 17k bleachers at 20; if you have a lot of LT you can sell as low as 13k bleachers at 20.

I always wanted to believe that 13k/7k was the way to go, but every time I check the data I am not convinced. Maybe if your team is doing not so great is when a big LT is rewarded, but that is a lot more difficult to check. And I say that because of this line in the rules:

You will find that the people who want the most expensive seats will pay their money win or lose (but care a lot about ticket prices), while the less expensive seats are mostly filled by rabid fans who will show up when the team is winning but won't pay to see a losing team.

Anyway, I would like to ask you if you are thinking about expanding your arena and if "yes" why. We have exactly the same arena size.

Anyway, I would like to ask you if you are thinking about expanding your arena and if "yes" why. We have exactly the same arena size.

Honestly, I didn't build my arena for economic purposes only. I just liked the numbers matching, and the realism factor for role-playing. It would be kind of stupid to have a 45k arena, and it's half empty every game :)

Another related thing is the unexplored impact of PR manager. I tried testing with a high level PR for a while, but didn't have steady results to get any data. But since bleachers are the most volatile seats, it seems logical that PR would influence them the most, so bleacher-heavy arenas could profit with a high-level PR?

Honestly, I didn't build my arena for economic purposes only. I just liked the numbers matching, and the realism factor for role-playing.

I didn't expect that answer :)

Another related thing is the unexplored impact of PR manager.

Yeah, PR manager level could be affecting the results. I did my own study with my team many seasons ago when I was in third division, and the diference between a level 2 and level 3 PR was worth it. But I have no clue about how much influence PR level has for first division.

I just use an advanced PR for my main team, I never knew if he brought me profit, I kind of just assume so :) They only cost about 12k per week so I think it's pretty safe to say they will bring some kind of profit, or at least break even.

I remember I tried firing PR in the last match of the season to cut back on some losses, but can't remember the results now.

Anyway, I upgraded from atrocious to competent in Utopia this season, because bleachers weren't selling, and it did pay off pretty well in the first match.

8/11/2015 League Game (Televised) against Old Town BC $ 119 330
8/18/2015 League Game against Whomping Wallabies $ 140 241

6k difference in salary, 20k difference in revenue. It's only one match, and I had a win before the second match, so I guess it's a bit skewed. But still PR managers seem to be worth it.

I just use an advanced PR for my main team, I never knew if he brought me profit, I kind of just assume so [ :)] They only cost about 12k per week so I think it's pretty safe to say they will bring some kind of profit, or at least break even.

Interesting. I have a level 3 PR in my main team and we are doing the same revenue in the last league game. I don't see that much difference in bleachers or the rest of the arena and your team is doing much better than mine. Maybe the league you play in is also important.
I am going to change my PR for a level 4 and see want happens.

I pulled the same revenues even with bad results. Here is history for the last season, prices were the same as now.

5/19/2015 League Game against Partizan 2011 $ 498 474
5/21/2015 National Tournament Game against Next Igalo $ 60 000
5/26/2015 League Game (Televised) against KK Budućnost $ 505 440
5/28/2015 National Tournament Game against KK Crvena Zvezda135 $ 70 000
6/2/2015 League Game against MrRushtu Celtics $ 495 976
6/4/2015 National Tournament Game against KK Real Madrid121 $ 80 000
6/9/2015 League Game against partizan zb $ 501 964
6/11/2015 National Tournament Game against MrRushtu Celtics $ 100 000
6/20/2015 League Game against MARITIMO Herceg Novi $ 505 188
6/27/2015 League Game (Televised) against K.K Pivljani $ 497 034
7/4/2015 League Game against Igalo Čagalj $ 505 342
7/11/2015 League Game against kk dusanja $ 501 070
7/18/2015 League Game against Montenegro Stars $ 505 202
7/21/2015 League Playoff Game against Gomilandor Bastards $ 272 190
8/8/2015 League Game against kk dusanja $ 504 622
8/13/2015 National Tournament Game against Troublemakers Risan $ 50 000
8/15/2015 League Game against KK ZONG $ 505 384
8/20/2015 National Tournament Game against будвани $ 50 000

I had bad results last season and your revenues are much better. I went down to 427k at one point. I remember having a smaller drop in revenue with the better PR when I was in III division. This reinforces the idea about his influence been more important when you are not doing so well.

19/05/2015 Partido de Liga vs. airsjordans $ 524 685
21/05/2015 Partido de Copa vs. Dracs $ 50 000
28/05/2015 Partido de Copa vs. Team Las Vegas $ 50 000
30/05/2015 Partido de Liga vs. GMA Team $ 427 876
04/06/2015 Partido de Copa vs. cb moncholis $ 50 000
06/06/2015 Partido de Liga vs. Juanito Caminante $ 473 743
13/06/2015 Partido de Liga vs. Almorrana Revenge $ 481 700
23/06/2015 Partido de Liga vs. Valencia Bàsquet $ 491 450
27/06/2015 Partido de Liga vs. NoAguantoLaJuerga $ 462 405
04/07/2015 Partido de Liga Televisado vs. arrano $ 442 968
11/07/2015 Partido de Liga vs. CEI TOLEDO $ 503 879
18/07/2015 Partido de Liga vs. Estudiabaantes $ 494 624
08/08/2015 Partido de Liga vs. Lugo warriors $ 503 956
13/08/2015 Partido de Copa vs. sexinton city $ 50 000
15/08/2015 Partido de Liga vs. Folgado Lakers $ 506 187
20/08/2015 Partido de Copa vs. unicaja baloncesto malaga $ 50 000

It would be kind of stupid to have a 45k arena, and it's half empty every game :)

I agree. And yet "build your arena as much as you can as fast as you can" is frequently suggested by even guys who seem in other ways to know this game.

For example, here's a fallacy recently posted above: "Ultimately having more seats can never hurt you more than the cost of building them." That is totally false, of course. What really hurts you is that your money could have been working for you instead of being thrown away on empty seats. Your money not working for you is the biggest waste of all.

Last edited by Mike Franks at 8/21/2015 9:49:38 PM

[

For example, here's a fallacy recently posted above: "Ultimately having more seats can never hurt you more than the cost of building them." That is totally false, of course. .

It's not totally false....Do you need a 20K seat arena if you are laboring in DIV? Of course not...but at the same you always want to have your Arena at least one division ahead of where you are because when you promote, you want those seats already in place to take advantage of the promotion bonus or you will be chasing dollars you'll never get back.

I started playing this game around the same time as a bunch of friends, and obviously, after the guy who got me into the game...I was more aggressive building my arena than they were, and I have also had more success than they have. Not that building seats is the secret to success, but when you are earning a significant amount of money more than your league mates because of your arena, it definitely gives you strong advantages.

For example, here's a fallacy recently posted above: "Ultimately having more seats can never hurt you more than the cost of building them." That is totally false, of course. .

It's not totally false....Do you need a 20K seat arena if you are laboring in DIV? Of course not...but at the same you always want to have your Arena at least one division ahead of where you are because when you promote, you want those seats already in place to take advantage of the promotion bonus or you will be chasing dollars you'll never get back.

I'll agree that being ahead in building your arena is useful when you promote, but you don't promote every season. Also, the statement as written totally neglects opportunity cost, and thus is false.

Not that building seats is the secret to success, but when you are earning a significant amount of money more than your league mates because of your arena, it definitely gives you strong advantages.

Sure, but you are not earning that money with empty seats.