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Actually math is pretty easy. This post almost made me forget that I'm tanking and that I'm profiting 140k a week.
God job on doing the research for me though. I appreciate it (y)

Ouch, I thought you were here supporting the crusade for large arenas at lower division levels and trying to prove it to us...by example. Sorry, my mistake, it must have been somebody else :P

My pleasure doing the research anyway. I took me about 5 minutes, so it was actually pretty easy!

For everybody else not named DRoss, and that includes Mike Franks, it would be a step in the right direction if you could provide evidence with examples and numbers to support your points. Since this is easily measurable, I don't see why you shouldn't. And please spare us the "I'm tanking" "I'm going for draft picks" "I have a terrible PR" excuses. In this game there are plenty of users who are training and choose not to (or are not able to) be competitive and besides 2 of the teams in DRoss conference I linked have a 4-6 record. If larger arenas give you more money everything else being the same, then it should be easy to support with data.

This should be discussed before we even get to the point of discussing what managers should do with their money.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/11/2015 1:56:22 PM

Look, I don't want to spoil your enjoyment but these below are just facts:

League Averages from Last Week
Player Salaries: $ 633 006 Attendance: $ 490 619
Staff Salaries: $ 60 878 Merchandise: $ 101 138
Scouting: $ 5 312 TV Contract: $ 204 911
Total: $ 699 196 Total: $ 796 668
League Average Net Income: $ 97 472

Player Salaries Floor: $ 368 839

Baseline Weekly Economy
Expenses Revenue
Player Salaries: $ 635 631
Typical Weekly Net Income: $ 167 618

Do the math from the first bit and think how much you would make from tanking in D1: probably more than 3 times the amount you're currently making.

So could it be that as you go up in divisional league, the opportunities for profiting increase? YES. This is one of the main arguments Trainerman has against micronations, where people who tank can't demote from D1 and make 3-4 million every season (which of course doesn't help the overall game inflation...)

Could the money you spent on arena be used to buy players to sell for a profit while you keep a smaller arena (like those other guys who have half the seats you have)? YES.

Could the money be used to buy players to help you win more and make more profits out of your smaller arena (like those other guys who have half the seats you have)? Probably: between your 80k and the 190k-200k salary the other guys have there is quite some middle ground, provided you're able to manage your GS and Enthusiasm. Also they make 20k-30k more than you do so basically your net gain is really only 80k-100k even without considering you would make more from your own arena if you were a little more competitive.

Could going from 80k to 200k salary perhaps help you go further in the Cup (let's say 2 rounds=100k) and perhaps get you a 300k promotion prize? YES. If you start including 500k in a season divided by 14, is another 35k extra per week. Those amounts are higher if you're in D2 or in D1. Obviously you're not gonna promote every season but not gettign kicked out of the cup right away is still a good idea.

Could it be that tanking in a higher division with a 20k arena is more profitable? YES. In fact it is a LOT more profitable and probably in the region of 4-500k per week in D1.

Could that be that making the playoffs and winning the first round is more profitable that finishing last? YES, provided that you make in gates more than you spend on players.

I've never had trouble competing for the title and making $100k+ per week. Perpete even got upset about it. Whoever boasts about making 100k or 150k by tanking should really think again. I wanna say this to people reading this thread: it's perfectly possible to do make $100k and compete at the same time, you don't have to demote in order to do it. Training makes things more difficult, but that's it. I've already trained PG for my C trainees 3 times this season in D1 and one is this season's draftee...I have a 6-4 record.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/11/2015 4:07:44 PM

Look: I think top teams can make 230k in D3. I've seen it, so it's nothing new. But $ 206k with better record and roster still compares very unfavourably to $ 191k from a 12k arena, because it means that the marginal gain from building those extra 8k seats in D3 is very low (and therefore making back the money spent on are will take quite a while).

Edit: Trainerman makes 230k with a less than 17k arena in D3 in Utopia so I suppose the max could be between 240k-250k

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/12/2015 12:33:39 PM

I don't think the English U21 and NT are quite in the same league as the US teams lol. I'm also not part of the staff on either team, but I'm sure there is plenty of better managers than me among the guys in the mentorship thread.

Last point I will make on arenas and tanking. When you tank you will have to consider that if you end up demoting you will make less money the following season (both the lower league and demotion will hit your income). That's a risk or a certainty if you are too far from anyone else's level and I think you need to factor that in your assumptions.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/11/2015 4:28:40 PM

I've never had trouble competing for the title and making $100k+ per week.

+eleventeen

And this is what I keep trying to come back to on the occasions we come back to this topic. The number of seats, the amount of money spent on players, etc. is all situational. What is most important, and what separates the better managers from the rest is the ability to be competitive and profitable at the same time. If you can do that, you can build your arena up tremendously, and then at some point you can compete on an even financial footing when you're already able to compete at a lesser footing. Likewise, if a manager never develops the capability of competing without having to outspend the competition at the level they're at, unless they can accumulate significant financial advantages in other ways, they're pretty much at their wall.

I think my as needed and your as needed differ a little bit. I feel "as needed" means when you are selling out or close to selling out a certain type of seats at your current price then that's when you should build.
Unless I've read wrong I believe you're in favor of higher prices and a lower number of total seats.

Yes, the part I bolded is one very good example of timely arena building. I agree with that.

I am not in favor of higher prices and low arena capacity, necessarily. I am in favor of putting fannies in the seats or the seats bring you no return. I am in favor of right-sizing an arena to prepare for imminent promotion. I am in favor of buying that critical player to fill the hole in your roster when he becomes available at a good price. I am in favor of judiciously increasing your arena when you have nothing better to do with your money at the moment and in the immediate future.

In short, I am in favor of being flexible and sensible with your money, not charging ahead and building the biggest arena possible as fast as possible as the recently silent expert from Japan advocates.

When you tank you will have to consider that if you end up demoting you will make less money the following season (both the lower league and demotion will hit your income). That's a risk or a certainty if you are too far from anyone else's level and I think you need to factor that in your assumptions.

If you build "as much as you can as fast as you can", you don't run the risk of demotion. You're at the lowest league trying to learn the fundamentals of the game. You could decide a smaller arena at higher priced seats makes more sense and invest in it when you have more income at the next level. How long do you think a recently promoted team who stretched the limit of their finances to get there will last at that level trying to build arena as well as their roster? All that eventuates is that you spend all the money you had on promotion, then you spent your higher income on trying to keep it, then you end up back where you started.