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fix outside shooting

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From: ardain
This Post:
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66284.19 in reply to 66284.11
Date: 1/1/2009 11:36:32 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
3333
I have noticed a drop in effectiveness as well. I still have good shooters, but I've dropped a bit percentage-wise. I really don't think teams are defending me better, just the shooters are missing more this season. I'm still leading the league, but i'm down a bit from last season.

This Post:
00
66284.20 in reply to 66284.12
Date: 1/1/2009 3:37:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
i have 0 respect for your argument, it is underhanded at best.

Of course that sample is small. If you take the 9 best shooters, and then put a further arbitrary screen, you damn well better have shooters shoot 37% from the arc (Keep in mind thats very near the NBA AVERAGE, not the top end)

Again, in my division in the US, there is only one team out of 8 that is shooting better than the WORST team in the real life NBA. The NBBA teams dont fare better.

I think shooting percentages are low in general, but they are absurdly low from beyond the arc. Instead of acknowledging that bb-wide the percentages are too low, you are drawing samples of 9 people or fewer, or finding little picky arguments that maybe one of my players shouldnt have such a high percentage.

But I am done discussing with you. Its clear from your tone and temprament that you are not a pleasant person to talk with.

I have made my point and thank you all for your time.




well, if every team has sucky 3 point shooting, im pretty sure its time to go after the system.

I did my very own little experiment, and searched for players with 12+ JR. I found 9 (nine) of them, as opposed to the 84 with 12+ JS and 46 with 12+ IS.

Of this very small sample, everyone who had at least half-decent passing (read: didn't jack up any opportunity he got, thus damaging his shooting percentage beyond repair), had 3FG% of .370 or better.

The results are pretty much the same when you expand the search criteria to 11+ JR and 4+ Pass.


This Post:
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66284.21 in reply to 66284.20
Date: 1/1/2009 4:22:14 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
you are drawing samples of 9 people or fewer, or finding little picky arguments that maybe one of my players shouldnt have such a high percentage.
I am drew a sample from 9 people because there were 9 people to draw a sample from. You don't think the latter is a problem? I do.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/1/2009 4:22:30 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
00
66284.22 in reply to 66284.20
Date: 1/1/2009 4:49:37 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
I think you should calm your tone down a little bit... you have my sympathy with regards to outside shooting percentages being raised... i dont think anything he said had an unreasonable tone. I will add again that we need to consider the ratings relative to the defensive ratings... people with higher JS or JR arent going to automatically shoot better if their opponents dont.

I did my own experiment and looked at division 2 in the US. The average starting guard in that division has
3.55 IS 3.68 ID, 7.0 JR 7.9 PD

so they defense is stronger than the outside shooting so i would expect that shooting would be lower than we tried to calibrate shooting...that being said it is my impression that outside shooting is low.. and I would like to raise it (see recent thread in global english for my discussion there as well).

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)


Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:58:33 PM

This Post:
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66284.23 in reply to 66284.22
Date: 1/1/2009 6:46:20 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
224224
people with higher JS or JR arent going to automatically shoot better if their opponents dont.

How does passing factor into this equation? My own observations are that players will poor passing will chuck basically everything, so this might bias the shooting percentage outcome as predicted by OD and JR.

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
This Post:
00
66284.24 in reply to 66284.23
Date: 1/1/2009 6:55:47 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
better team passing is going to result in better shots and less "chucks" thats true.

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:58:48 PM

This Post:
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66284.25 in reply to 66284.11
Date: 1/3/2009 3:07:01 PM
Rashmonsters
III.7
Overall Posts Rated:
44
"the season before when i had a good outside shooting team and was in a weaker division, i was 35.7%"

Sounds like opponent defenses adjusting to the r&g love affair has a lot to do with the decline. I'm fairly new and in a lower division but saw quite quickly that many teams used r&g and were successful. I hate r&g philosophically and developed my team to counter this tactic with a focus on OD and making them pay inside.

Last edited by Rashmon at 1/3/2009 3:07:56 PM

This Post:
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66284.26 in reply to 66284.25
Date: 1/3/2009 9:20:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
I have sympathy for Gunner and not just because he is a friend of mine. I personally am glad that we have discussions like this from time to time.

Anyhow, my personal opinion is that things are ok. Maybe some tweaking is necessary on outside shooting but nothing major.

I remember when inside focused teams always won. You had to train inside guys or your team was crap. Outside players were purely fluff. A tweak was made which was quite fair in my opinion. The trouble was that no one had ever bothered to train outside d. This made teams with outside shooters quite effective.

Now players have adapted and trained outside d. As someone else mentioned, the d trainers have caught up with the shooting trainers. Maybe this is ok, maybe not.

Bottom line - I appreciate that you are going to look into it, Forrest.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
From: CitB
This Post:
00
66284.27 in reply to 66284.26
Date: 1/4/2009 8:14:07 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
66
the guards available still not good enough i guess, just wait a few seasons till they got trained to their limits...actually one of mine has an 47%
anyway there is so many factors which influence this, skillkombinations, opponent, tactics and so on...


From: DerMef
This Post:
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66284.28 in reply to 66284.27
Date: 1/4/2009 12:24:52 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5555
I also wonder about the shot percentages of my star player, his skills:
Jump Shot: prominent Jump Range: prominent
Outside Def.: proficient Handling: proficient
Driving: strong Passing: respectable
Inside Shot: atrocious Inside Def.: pitiful
Rebounding: average Shot Blocking: atrocious
Stamina: respectable Free Throw: pitiful

Experience: atrocious

His shooting numbers this season:
FG 3FG
83-195 27-81
0.426 0.333

33% 3FG , 49% 2FG !
I also feel that while he's very good at mid range jumpers, his percentage in the zone is not worse than his mid range percentage.

So he's significantly better inside than at the 3 point line, but his skills (inside shot atrocious) suggest Kapono-like shooting percentages... I'm playing Motion most of the time, so it's not like he only gets inside shots. ;)

I think it's a bit confusing because his shooting percentages are practically the opposite of what his skills say! And his 3 point shooting is pretty low for him being one of the best players in the league...

He could be an exeption but it looks like something about 3 point shooting needs to be changed...

Last edited by DerMef at 1/4/2009 12:25:23 PM

This Post:
00
66284.29 in reply to 66284.28
Date: 1/4/2009 2:55:47 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
inside shots are close to the basket.. 2 point jump shots are presumably what your guy takes and makes a lot of. Your 3p percentage is maybe a little low, but its kind of meaningless to evaluate based soley upon the offensive skills... i need to know the average defenders your guy is facing and how many 3s are good opportunities created by good passing and balance etc, and which are ones he is forced to settle for. there are lots of factors that go into a person's shooting percentage... just ask a former Phoenix Sun.
EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:59:05 PM

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