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managers with elastic for brains believe the elastic effect as a net positive thing!

Rosen makes a good point - we only have so many good loyal inside and outside trainers. picking their transfer targets should be done wisely to get the best possible players in the long run.

I wish i hadnt bought my player Ahearne (no offense mate, keep up the good work!) as only two weeks later two better players got bot released - and they were better despite having missed 4 weeks training!

just to clarify - for guards is there a consensus amongst managers that starting high in any or all of IS, ID, and SB are good value for money things to have(salary wise) in the long run, where as rebounding tends not to be?

i know for NT the higher them all the better, but at the end of the day the training team needs to jusify their salary...

And for bigs, are there any guard skills that arent value for money? I guess JS and JR can add to salaries and while all players benefit from JS, i guess there is a fairly low JR limit...especially for a centre?

interested in views here!

this is exactly why i cant give you any guidance. you asked me for it and ideally, if i would be NT coach for the next 10 seasons I can give you guidance. But what if I give you guidance as to what I believe is good and than you train the player following my guidance and the next NT coach or the one after that will say no, i dont like this player.

Darryl austin is already transfer listed by his new coach and looks like this. (I will edit this post and remove the stats once he has been sold again or when the deadline to sell runs out).


Darryl Austin (16739976)

Weekly salary: $ 232 215

DMI: 893500
Age: 22
Height: 7'4" / 224 cm
Potential: MVP
Game Shape: respectable
Jump Shot: inept Jump Range: atrocious
Outside Def.: atrocious Handling: inept
Driving: respectable Passing: atrocious
Inside Shot: phenomenal Inside Def.: prodigious
Rebounding: prodigious Shot Blocking: sensational
Stamina: mediocre Free Throw: strong

Experience: inept

Like I said, the U21 coach thinks we need more players like this. I say, atrocious passing, atrocious OD and atrocious JR, and lets not talk about the other crappy stats he has. If this is the future off the england NT we can quit today. We need to start somewhere and until we have better, I will use him. but this guy needs to have minimum guard skills something like

respectable JS respectable JR

average OD very high handling

very high driving average passing

and these are real minimums. Off course his big skills are very nice.


Now one other example and than I will shut up because I dont think it is a good idea for me to continue as a NT coach at the end off Season 18 and even far beyond that.

This player is just an example. Put the same player in a salary calculator and put in atrocious RB instead off respectable and you will see a quite remarkable difference in salary. It should be something like 40-60k less. Off course it would be awesome to have all guard with high rebounding, but the player needs to be sustainable at club level too. I dont think this amout off salary warrants the extra rebounding. The same goes for SB on bigs, some coaches (for example the Belgium NT coach runs away with it), I dont rate it very much and I dont think it warrants the huge salary add on it gives... Off course, Ideally we have bigs with lvl 15 or 16 SB (for example) who wouldnt as a NT coach. But again put in level 8 SB or lvl 16 in the salary calculator and you will see a massive difference.

Shooting Guard Chi Yicai (9263411)
Auction ends: 11/11/2011 23:21:09
Owner: globetrottel münchen


Weekly salary: $ 255 249
Age: 27
Height: 6'3" / 190 cm
Potential: hall of famer
Game Shape: respectable
Jump Shot: colossal Jump Range: marvelous
Outside Def.: stupendous Handling: wondrous
Driving: wondrous Passing: strong
Inside Shot: pitiful Inside Def.: average
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: mediocre
Stamina: mediocre Free Throw: strong

Experience: strong


I hope this helps to answer some questions.

IS for guards doesnt add alot salary and I think a level 11 or 12 IS makes the guard already very useable. The same goes with bigs with level 10 JS and level 7 JR. Same with ID for guards and OD for bigs. level 7 or 8 would do. So in other words. most skills that a super draftee gets when he is being drafted.


Last edited by Astragoth at 11/9/2011 5:59:12 PM

Look at my draftee. Except JR he has it all (handling is very easy to train). The problem is that I cant give him 1 position training that he needs. Also I have 6 guard trainees already and sell all these guys with losses to train 1 player isnt really an option.

I tried to sell him for 1,65 million which I believe he is worth atleast that (i have seen worse draftees go for a lot more last week), and I didnt manage to do so. So what will happen is that I will 2 pos train him and although I believe I can make him a nice trainee, he will loose vital training time. But he really needs 1 position training.

Craig Thom (22793669) Power Forward
Weekly salary: $ 4 917
Role: draws a paycheck
(BuzzerBeta)

DMI: 11800
Age: 18
Height: 6'11" / 211 cm
Potential: MVP
Game Shape: respectable
Jump Shot: respectable Jump Range: pitiful
Outside Def.: average Handling: inept
Driving: respectable Passing: respectable
Inside Shot: average Inside Def.: average
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: awful
Stamina: inept Free Throw: mediocre

Experience: atrocious


we have another super draftee that Tide of Fire drafted. and i bet there are 2-3-4 more around this season. Last season there were 2 or 3 as well. The road off succes for england isnt by training players like darell austin. The road to success is to train my draftee for 1 or 2 seasons 1 position guard training and than switch to 1 pos big training and give him big skills like darryl austin. If we can train 2, 3 or 4 players a season like this, we can do better than top 40 or top 35, but so far we have failed to do so and so far I havent seen any england team fork out 1,5 to 2 million for a super draftee and concentrate all training around this player. This isnt criticism because I didnt do this myself and I doubt I would do this myself. This is a fact and as long as other countries like germany train players in lower leagues 1 position (until their salary is no longer sustainable) and than sell the player on to a german team that continues the 1 pos training and that can sustain the salary, we will never be in the top 40 or 35...

It isnt a problem that the talent isnt there, I have seen enough talent being drafted the last 2-3 seasons. The problem is getting them to the right teams, train them properly and than the future could be very bright for the England community...

But it starts with a NT coach running the NT coach for a very long time. Every coach has a different vision about this game and to start all over again every 2-3-4 seasons is unsustainable...

I think its helpful to have posts like your previous one showing what skills are truly desired, i think the role of a mentor in future will be to more directly involved, instead asking for skills update and advising they can help if you need advice on what to train, we set out a road plan for that trainer based on his current skills to ensure we get what we've after.

Of course we could only request users do this and more experienced users might object but is maybe more helpful for more new users and rookie trainers, targeting players who simply are lacking basic fundamental skills like Austin.

Minimum requirements of making the u21 and the full teams made aware to every team with an english player disclosed via the players profile of which the current genetic message which said 'contact the team if you think your player is good enough'

I think the good point about players like robbie sands and austin, is the fact the team is starting to build depth of quality in a position which will set the standard for future players and lead to players like austin being left out in the future.

I do not appreciate misquoting my view of secondaries like that. I announced that a HOF prospect was picked up by a trainer who has an interest into turning him into an even better player than a player who is currently on our NT squad, this in no way seems like a negative to me. The fact is that bad secondaries is(in my opinion) the lesser of two evils as compared to having bad primaries.

there are no disagreements here, no one wants to encourage a monoskilled big as a finished player and see them make it to Nt level for a lack of alternative choice.

it is hard enough for a big trainer to factor in a change to outside training and payroll it and manage team performance on court at the same time. on top of this if they want their player to make U21 then the only course of action is to compete for a place is to train the big skills regardless of the starting outside skills. if they start on the secondaries then its likely they will not compete at pf or centre with the monoskilled/those bigs which were lucky enough to start with outside skills.

so with this incentive as well as all the other difficulties it is not surprising there are few well built big men.

i also bet that if a trainer like me bought a big man and trained them for a season or two outside, the value added wouldnt be as high as for adding some pops to guards or SFs. what would a big trainer pay for a 20yo tall guy with all respectables, perhaps JS/JR/OD slightly higher? probably not much more than the same player was worth at 18 years

In fairly exciting news Rudolph Brewer was picked up by Darryl Austin's former trainer and he says he wants to make him even better:)

i am very sorry if you are offended but i didnt misquote you.

this is exactly what you said, and the fact that you mention rudolph will be trained even better and dont really specify how, knowing darryl austin is a very badly trained player, all I can understand is that he will train him simillar but with even better big skills. nowhere did you mention that he will train the player different, because that is what we need and not more training the same way...

what would a big trainer pay for a 20yo tall guy with all respectables, perhaps JS/JR/OD slightly higher? probably not much more than the same player was worth at 18 years

if you buy the 18 yr old for 1.5 to 2 million you would loose certainly 500k if not more value wise...

What is the consensus then on what Rudolphs secondaries should reach? I'd already suggested a pop or two in passing which would likely be accompanied by a pop in handling. They are currently 4/1/5/2/4/1.

i mentioned already what his secondaries should look like from a NT perspective...

anything in that direction would be awesome.

atrocious in JR isnt that bad (but far from desirable). but 2 in HN and attrocious in PS is terrible. This player is a turn over monster. Maybe not at club or U21 level but at NT, he will loose you games instead off win it. these both need to be atleast at 6, to make him an acceptable C. and that would just be a beginning. For PF, he needs about 8 to 10 more JS.

Last edited by Astragoth at 11/10/2011 7:49:45 AM