BuzzerBeater Forums

sorry to discourage u
but its proven that if u just polt SB skill VS SB frequency, SB doesn't worth the salary

i can already tell u a SB difference of 7 worth less than 1 SB in game without any data analyze

and the SB frequency/help defence appears to be totally random without the need of SB or OD/ID

if u still are not sad by these, and have other mean of clawing data out other than game analyzer,

i am free to help

I am aware of much of the data on SB but have some questions on its validity. Honestly as far as SB is concerned the actual number of shots blocks means very little to me but I am more interested in seeing the other effects that it has; IS frequency as an example. I am not convinced at its uselessness from the data that I have seen thus far.

I am a bit of a data analysis nut, and I have no claims that the data out there is incorrect, I just want to look at things a little more. I also intend on looking at some of the tactics as well but I figure that I will start with something that has a few less variables to worry about.

that way only lead u to a simple conclusion, i can already tell u

1. against inside offence SB occurs more often
2. help defense is independent of SB skills, but help Def leads to more shot block
3. help Def is the byproduct of surplus of individual defense against individual opponent offense

therefore SB frequency is more of ID / OD vs IS/ JR

In fact if ur defensive rating fall behind the opponent's off, it doesn't matter how much SB u have , the opponent will just punch through

SB for me is not about the numbers, its part of a complete defense, momentum changer, fast break starter, and individual nightmare

good luck for quantitfling these :)

i think you should analyze teams, who have higher shotblockers games very closely and compare them to similar teams, who havent shot blocking. To make conclusions all of both team players should be twins, should play against same oponents, with same tactics. So deep analyzis isnt possible. I was thinking sb may affect oponents shoting decision, for example, downgrade the effectiveness of oponents driving skills, since he may be forced to make more jumpers than layups/dunks. Also whole oponents team may less concentrate on driving to basket, but more likely taking close range jumpers. By making shots futher from the basket, they should be able to grabb less rebounds, cause they end up in worse possition than a team making dunks etc... Atleast that should be in real game, but how its in bb, hard to tell, and i doubt anyone, other than Gms will ever tell us.

For example, when Javtokas (lithuanias main center, defensive speciallist) is on the court our oponents game differs sooooo much,than he is on the bench. And u cant say he is bad player, cause his numbers is bad, but the fact he changes whole oponents offensive plays sometimes is the key to the game. He discourages people drive to the basket as well as forces bigs to take hook-shots instead of faceup-jumpers, our team gets way more rebounds when he is on the court to compare when hes on bench, despite the fact other center grabs more rebounds per 48mins than he does.

Last edited by Gajus Julijus Cezaris at 12/8/2011 6:31:20 AM

The other thing I have to be careful of is to make sure that I use players with similar ID numbers and different SB. If I find a player with higher SB but also ID there is no way to determine how much either one is having an impact. I may actually alter my roster slightly to attempt to find C's that are similar in ID but different in SB for this testing purpose. It may take a little time but I should be able to accomplish this without destroying my team.

A couple of things:

1. Analyzing the data from a season of your own league games will not give you anywhere near the sample size to conclusively say much of anything. If you want to do this, you'll need to figure out a way to crowdsource.

2. Looking at box scores will get you nowhere, as shotblocking also alters shots. (125704.72) You will need Moutlinho's game analyzer to create any sort of rigorous study on the effect of shotblocking. (100218.2)

Good luck though! This idea is an interesting one for sure.

Very good points +1 but I am aware of both.

1) I will likely have to start with my own data as a small sample size until I am able to come across more data. It may at least be able to give me a hypothesis of what to expect because at this moment I am not in favor of either side. Finding appropriate data is difficult because it is tough to control many of the necessary factors but it will require some assistance of others in order to be effective.

2) Very true, box scores and shots blocked mean little here. I am more concerned with ideas such as if less Inside will be taken or at least a smaller percentage made, also if perhaps this results in less players in the paint and possibly reduced OR numbers as a result. In real life dominate shot blockers often force offensive players to take a more outside approach. And yes I understand that this is not real life and these factors are dependent upon the logic of the code but at least they are interesting ideas to consider.

In the end one or two extra blocked shots do not warrant the training in the SB skill but if teams react to players with higher SB by moving their game outside then inside scoring and rebounding could be altered as a result.

I have two C. One starts at C and other on PF.

First one has: ID 14, SB 10
Second one: ID 12, SB 5

Good enough for you?

If you are interested, I have also interesting couple of guards.

First one: ID 7, SB 7
Second one: ID 7, SB 1
Third: Same as second one

Last edited by Koperboy at 12/9/2011 4:12:46 AM

The C's might only be helpful if they are ever Starter/Backup. Even if just now and again. If you are willing to send me a message with the names and those attributes that match up with each player I should be able to pull the game data that is helpful. The guard info might also be interesting to check out as well.

ah, unfortunately they are both starters...Same with guards. Like you said, if ever there's a Starter/backup roster, I will send you a message.

Not a problem. I appreciate the offer though :). I know that what I am looking for it pretty specific but at least it will be fairly accurate when I find it :p.