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Playoff seeding tiebreakers

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From: j9s3
This Post:
33
166078.20 in reply to 166078.19
Date: 12/14/2010 7:13:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5151
Koz:
For starters, it may be worth checking how the rest of the world is doing stuff, because being self-centered doesn't really help your argument.

Fanny:
He only pointed out sports in the US so he is being bias and self cenetred.Looks like he wants the world to follow the US which is not happening. We roll how we want.

So first off, I wasnt self-centered at all. I said "At least for the US, I dont know what sports they play in bulgaria" Whats wrong with that? I admitted that my examples were from US, and that I dont know what sports they play in Bulgaria. I have nothing against Bulgaria, and nothing against foreigners-if it helps, I am one too. And dont worry, you can roll however you want. Just know that the NBL (Australian) uses H2H as tiebreakers too.
I agree that being self-centered doesnt help my argument, but my argument certainly helps my argument. Let me remind you what Koz said: "The rule is standard and is typically applied as a second tiebreaker in most sports." I said this was not true.
The US is the country with most popular sports. If you look at the three most popular sports in the US, or the Olympics or other world competitions, Koz's statement is false. Remember,he said "most." I didnt say the rest of the world doesnt follow this rule, but I do doubt it.
Logically, BB is basketball, and basketball is a sport invented in Canada & popularized in the US, and it remains the most competitive and popular in the US than anywhere else. This should only add more weight to my argument.

Koz:
In the closest comparison all head-to-head series are at least two games, and in all cases teams have the same number of home games. This is obviously not the case in Buzzerbeater, therefore the head-to-head tiebreaker is simply not applicable.

Head-to-head means the 2 tied teams' records against each other. Remember, this thread is about tiebreakers for getting into the playoffs. In a given conference, the teams play each team in their own conference twice: once at home, once away = 1 & 1 = same number of home games. The team with the better record in those 2 games would advance.

Chikent: Thank you

Rabid Camel:
The phrase "At least for the US, I dont know what sports they play in bulgaria...", to me, is definitely belittling the fact that Kozzy is from Bulgaria. That's being rude in the first place. I don't blame Kozzy for firing back. And using his knowledge of his own country's sports is kind of pointless, since they're not basketball.

Again, I wasnt being rude. But if you read through the forum regularly, and you see Koz's posts...
And what do you mean the knowledge of my country's sports is useless, since theyre not basketball? One of my examples was NBA, which is basketball.

They are on neutral sites for all but 1 team in the competition. There is a huge difference between this and BB games, where each league game is hosted by one of the teams.
So despite the fact that head-to-head is used as a tie-breaker in some competitions, it's simply not going to happen in BB, because it's not suitable for the situation. That's it.
[...] I live in Boston anyhow.

Once again H2H means the winning percentage or records of the 2 tied teams against each other. If you are instead referring to a 1-game playoff for a tiebreaker, BB could easily set up a tiebreaker game in a neutral arena-just take away the home court advantage and eliminate the profits (or split). Being a simulated game, this is even easier than finding a neutral arena in real life.
Youre in Boston? Me too. And again, Im a foreigner too. So dont think Im being self-centered or racist. Just stating a simple fact, and then suggesting a more fair rule for tiebreakers. Just think about it, 2 teams that play (just about) equally well. Award the better offensive team instead of the better defensive team? Not fair.
Use H2H or have a 1-game tiebreaker? May the best team win.

This Post:
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166078.22 in reply to 166078.20
Date: 12/14/2010 9:19:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
275275
Don't know what they play in Bulgaria? Do some research.

nothing against foreigners

Are you implying this forum is actually US soil?

No one here follows the NBL so your argument is irrelevant.

The US is the country with most popular sports.

Bias.

This whole thread is bias towards North Americans.

Can you smell what the Hobos are cooking... oh wait its just Roger. (18085274)
This Post:
00
166078.23 in reply to 166078.22
Date: 12/14/2010 9:49:42 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5151
Don't know what they play in Bulgaria? Do some research.

nothing against foreigners

Are you implying this forum is actually US soil?

No one here follows the NBL so your argument is irrelevant.

The US is the country with most popular sports.

Bias.

This whole thread is bias towards North Americans.


Sorry, I have better things to do than research Bulgarian sports, or for that matter, any other country's sports.
By saying "nothing against foreigners" how am I implying that this forum is US soil? Where's the logical connection in that?

The NBL was not part of my argument until you forced it in. You are Australian, and you complained I was only considering US basketball. Well, the NBL is Australian basketball, and it became part of the argument once you complained. Otherwise, I wouldnt have mentioned it. And my argument is definitely not based on the NBL, so that would not make my argument irrelevant.
Bias towards North Americans? As I said before, Im a foreigner too...
Buy anyway, I use US examples --> you complain bias. I use olympic/worldwide examples --> you ignore them. I use Australian examples --> you say nobody cares about Australian basketball.--> And you tell me to research Bulgarian sports. Do you really think Bulgarian sports are that much more popular than Australian sports?

I'm sorry that US is the most popular for sports. There is nothing I can do about that - that's just the way it is - people in the US like sports. That being said, many examples are from the US, and this whole argument was based on the "most" or majority. There is nothing I can do to change the majority. Researching Bulgarian sports would not be significant here. II tried Australian - you didnt appreciate it.
So what examples would you use? (Have you done any research yourself?)

This Post:
00
166078.25 in reply to 166078.24
Date: 12/15/2010 12:30:00 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
5151
Folks, there's no use to point fingers here. Let's just stick to the topic.

Thank you.

From: CrazyEye

To: j9s3
This Post:
00
166078.26 in reply to 166078.23
Date: 12/15/2010 3:43:06 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
I'm sorry that US is the most popular for sports.


only in th point of view of a american ;) On a worldwide view, you would have more cricket visitors then baseball, and the majority of dudes are looking and playing football.

The thing with head to head, is that you can not make the same comparision for all "comparision" wihich would make it hard here(especially because the majority of users don't know the rules of the "most popolar sports") and u had to handle things betwen the conferences different. The end game logic isn*'t fit for a head to head comparision too.

Also i like the point differential because it is easy, and over a bunch of matches also fair because you don't need extra calculator for researching all pssible head to head groups.

From: Kukoc

To: j9s3
This Post:
00
166078.27 in reply to 166078.25
Date: 12/15/2010 5:22:53 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
13361336
I think baseing tiebreaker on 2 games is worse than basing it on the whole season. With different effort possibilitys we might get 2 crunches with 2 losses because of those crunches dipping the scoring scale for the H2H tiebreaker losing team. Also national cup creates a situation where you just have to field your second lineup with towelboys being the bench players. We already have to cope with playing leagues other side top 4 teams away, when your closest rival has those games at home. Additionally basing your playoff tie-breaker on that one match just does not seem right.
Some things in real life are just not the best solutions for this game. I would not want 82 game season that lasts a calendar year. The tiebreaker is not points scored, it's +/- points. Are you saying that good defence teams can not get a good +/- stat?

Last edited by Kukoc at 12/15/2010 5:23:34 PM

From: j9s3

This Post:
00
166078.28 in reply to 166078.27
Date: 12/15/2010 5:45:39 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5151
The tiebreaker is not points scored, it's +/- points. Are you saying that good defence teams can not get a good +/- stat?


No, I am aware that the tiebreaker is +/- (points differential) and I have no problem with that. What the original poster asked was what the tiebreaker after +/- is, which is total points.
I understand good defensive teams can get a good +/-. But they are at a huge disadvantage for total points if they're defensive focused. (Also keep in mind that the tactics - slower pace v.s. faster pace - using slower tactics doesnt mean a team is worse than a faster paced team. Just like focusing on defense doesnt mean a teams is worse than a team focused on offense.)

I understand the national cup problem, but the H2H is at least reasonable and justifiable, if not fair (national cup creates other sacrifices too). A one-game playoff is in a neutral arena is justifiable too. So is using the 2 tied teams' records in the last half of the season (I understand the teams played are different). However, there is no justifiable argument for the total points rule - it is not reasonable at all, because it says nothing about which team is better (basketball is not a shooting competition; there is defense involved). It is not in basketball tradition either, so there is no reason to feel ashamed of not using it. The total points tiebreaking rule is just an unfortunate and illogical rule implemented in the system.

Last edited by j9s3 at 12/15/2010 5:46:17 PM

From: Monkeybiz

To: j9s3
This Post:
22
166078.29 in reply to 166078.28
Date: 12/15/2010 5:50:12 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
237237
Really...how often do you need a tiebreaker beyond PD?? How likely is it going to happen that 2 teams with the same record have the same PD?? Especially in basketball games where points are like 80-120 a game.




From: j9s3

This Post:
00
166078.30 in reply to 166078.29
Date: 12/15/2010 6:01:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5151
Really...how often do you need a tiebreaker beyond PD?? How likely is it going to happen that 2 teams with the same record have the same PD?? Especially in basketball games where points are like 80-120 a game.


Almost never, and Extremely unlikely :)

But I didnt bring the subject up. Just responding to the OP's question about tiebreakers after PD.

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