BuzzerBeater Forums

1. You really are saying, that, which is possible, a team which pays for utopia shortly before the playoffs and is maybe one of the 2 lucky guys to get to a new league with a playoff team, can promote but a team which has played the whole season can´t?

2. the problem which i have is, that there haven´t been any rules mentioned regarding the promotion in utopia. and now, hidden in a thread, not as a official post, some things are said- but at the end they tell us "well, don´t count on that, it could also be the other way round".
So, there have been made soo many mistakes with utopia, that i can´t see how you will solve them now.

3. utopia is different, at least for the next 3 seasons from every other bb country, how can i expect the same rules there?

4. has there ever been a statement how the currently 73 league IV´s will be reduced to 64 next season?can´t remember it- another point in utopia without any rules- we´ll probably see at the seasons end, how the problem will be solved.

5. i know that the problem now is in the world and has to be solved. if you really stay with the more than 64 league IV concept, my recommendation for promotion would be the following:

The playoff finalists promote.
you implement a playoff series for place 3- the winner promotes.
the rest has to be filled up.
only teams which have been in a league that has been started before the all star break can promote.

And of course, that is against my argument, that the rules shouldn´t be changed while the game is played, but there have simply been no rules so far, and still aren´t as marin said, they can be revised at every time. and some rules have to be implemented, and in my mind, as soon as possible.

1. You really are saying, that, which is possible, a team which pays for utopia shortly before the playoffs and is maybe one of the 2 lucky guys to get to a new league with a playoff team, can promote but a team which has played the whole season can´t?

It's like that in every league in every country in the BB world from which promotion is possible. At least, I'm not aware of any league where start date takes precedence over the more traditional means of promotion, but I suppose you could always open a thread in the suggestion forum for "rank teams for promotion based on their start date rather than their team".

And of course, that is against my argument, that the rules shouldn´t be changed while the game is played, but there have simply been no rules so far, and still aren´t as marin said, they can be revised at every time. and some rules have to be implemented, and in my mind, as soon as possible.

While you're in the suggestions forum, you can also start up the "play every BB game using the old game engine" thread. Not only would it fix the common complaint about the ASG being a different engine, but it would also stop the incessant whining some people have about LI dominance.

the rules have been set, so i'm not really doing anything constructive, but why not use national ranking as your criteria (after two teams making league finals)? this gets around all sorts of problems (late start, competitive vs. noncompetitive leagues, paying attention to the Cup vs. league games). so, after the first 160 teams advance, then simply go in order of national ranking to promote.

of course, this idea is only as good as the value of the statistical effort to produce a national ranking.

i know there are skeptics, but i have found this stat to be usefully reliable.

the rules have been set, so i'm not really doing anything constructive, but why not use national ranking as your criteria (after two teams making league finals)? this gets around all sorts of problems (late start, competitive vs. noncompetitive leagues, paying attention to the Cup vs. league games). so, after the first 160 teams advance, then simply go in order of national ranking to promote.

of course, this idea is only as good as the value of the statistical effort to produce a national ranking.

i know there are skeptics, but i have found this stat to be usefully reliable.

If the rank were useful, maybe.

Check out my team - 5-1 at this point, got knocked out in the Cup in the first round on -2 effort on the road and still almost pulled that off (was down 1 until my opponent hit an end-of-shotclock desperation 3 with 18 seconds left). Fewest points allowed in the league by a huge margin. I suppose I'm doing alright. But according to the national rank, I'd be 10th in line in my league to deserve promotion, a full 516 places behind a team that's 1-5 but is still in the Cup. If you can make a convincing case that nine other managers in my league would deserve promotion based on what they've done in league play, I'd be exceptionally impressed beyond my already high opinion of your abilities.

the rules have been set, so i'm not really doing anything constructive, but why not use national ranking as your criteria (after two teams making league finals)? this gets around all sorts of problems (late start, competitive vs. noncompetitive leagues, paying attention to the Cup vs. league games). so, after the first 160 teams advance, then simply go in order of national ranking to promote.

of course, this idea is only as good as the value of the statistical effort to produce a national ranking.

i know there are skeptics, but i have found this stat to be usefully reliable.

National ranking...

Okay, so new manager busts A, pulls some great coaching moves, does a great job... but loses tiebreaker, because he's tied with Manager X who's been playing buzzerbeater since season 6 and has a higher national ranking due to his experience.

That doesn't seem fair to me, what about you?

Thanks for clarification.

How about season after that?
64 teams will promote from III to II. Logic will be same, I assume.

But question is.....is there going to be different logic for demotion from III division next season? Asking this because there is need for extra 32 teams in III division. And quickly there are two possibilities:
1) those 32 will be taken from div IV so that demotion from div III is normal
2) those 32 will not be demoted from div III and promotion from IV is normal

I think this should be informed also....impact for season after that is then quite minimal, but I think same logic will be then used also for those extra "12" promotions.....

PS. My own preference would be option 1 .... more fair for teams who are now in extremely competitive league....

PPS. How teams will be put in D.IV next season? If I remember correctly, it has been said that all will be playing agaist human managers, so some kind of compression is needed....What is this compression algorithm?


Last edited by Codemasters at 4/26/2014 1:00:03 PM

Check out my team . . . got knocked out in the Cup in the first round . . . I suppose I'm doing alright. But according to the national rank, I'd be . . . behind a team that's . . . still in the Cup. I. . . can make a convincing case that nine other managers in my league would deserve promotion based on what they've done . . .

so i guess you agree with me.

i'm not going to fall on my sword over this, because from my perspective the rules don't matter that much but for those who are interested in moving up, important decisions hinge on what is decided. i thought national ranking would be simple and preferable to the byzantine rules that have been announced, but your note and the one that followed showed that my "simple" solution in reality hides a byzantine and unknown calculation. if i were interested in advancing this season, the clarity provided by BB-Marin, though complicated, is much more preferable than trying to figure out what goes into national ranking and using that as a guide to constructing a team or reaching a goal.

Do we all really NEED this information to play the game?

There is a point where over thinking and distraction start to take over I think. Surely if you have developed a strategy and have invested in it with conviction, then most of these questions that are being asked for absolute clarification are really not so relevant?

If your strategy is to buy up and dominate... then do that, if you do actually dominate, then no problems, you will promote (what does it matter who promotes with you?). The set of variables that YOU impose on yourself for this strategy are numerous; What if others in my league apply the same strategy and it gets ultra competitive/ expensive? Do I change strategy? Oh no, I haven't invested in the Arena, wasted heaps on dubious aged talent, missed out on time training trainees, slipped in the rankings, knocked out of the Cup, getting a decent draft pick now but haven't invested in any points to find a decent pick....the list goes on.

If you were tanking to get a better pick, this is simple, you are not effected in any way by promotion issues.

And then there are multiple other mixed strategies out there no doubt.

The way I look at it, we are supposed to be experienced managers in a very competitive new country, economies of scale apply. You could by chance, find yourself in a ultra competitive league or not, if your plan was to buy up some aged talent and compete and find yourself in the ultra competitive situation (like me, the most teams left in the Cup... and all from my conference!) then you might need to re evaluate.

I understand that some people are seeking just simple clarification on some issues/topics, but when it comes to responses containing sentiment that it is critical information or inferences that it will decay the game into anarchy... take a chill pill and just play the GAME

PS: I has been announced already that the remaining teams in Div IV will be re sorted to keep all the human managers in the same leagues as the promotions happen.

Do we all really NEED this information to play the game?

take a chill pill and just play the GAME

Some of us think that they "need" or they can better see all possible options based on that information. I personally think that requested information might impact for my strategies in the end of this season and also for next season, just as you said to re-evaluate strategy. If you do not "need" that information and you do not enjoy "over thinking", it is your choice. You should also understand that some of us enjoy this game differently and maybe they don't enjoy advice from novice managers without any proof of success - no offense (maybe I'll take some other pills now ;).

Personally I think that rules should be clear from day 1 when Utopia started. That way no-one could say that they didn't know. So no harm to be precise in the rules either.

If you felt that my original post was rude, sorry for that. As you can see, English is not my native language so it is not so fluent and probably I cannot express myself with tone I would like to.