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The bolded part doesn't make any sense.
When people want to introduce changes, they should always think why the system works like that.
Cup prizes are there as a trade-off, so you either focus on league matches or cup matches.

Its one more TIE per week. So there is still a bonus, plus it has a huge impact on your fan survey.

Oh, yeah, let me lose on purpose one league match per week for one more TiE! It's 100% worth it!

Look, as long as we don't know the numbers your wild guess is as good as mine. I ESTIMATE that FA money drain > cup bonusses, you say its not. Thats okay, I have no problem with that, we won't be able to prove it anyway. To call my idea dumb, is pretty arrogant though.

Also I find it quite funny that you can make bold statements on what the community will or will not accept. You are not the community.

I feel like we have seen the peak of the deflation as it is. We see somewhat higher prices since some seasons back then what we did at one point. I feel the economy is pretty stable where it is now. Do we really want to stir the pot and see what have been lying on the bottom?

As I took a break from the game I am not that familiar with the transfer prices of a few seasons ago, but to me it seems much more worse than like 5-6 seasons ago. Might be because the market is flooded with old players that sell for pennies, maybe we should get rid of them

Look, as long as we don't know the numbers your wild guess is as good as mine. I ESTIMATE that FA money drain > cup bonusses, you say its not. Thats okay, I have no problem with that, we won't be able to prove it anyway. To call my idea dumb, is pretty arrogant though.

Also I find it quite funny that you can make bold statements on what the community will or will not accept. You are not the community.

No,the real problem is that you keep sustaining your selfish vision and doesn't even care to understand what people have tried to explain you
It does not matter at all if FA money drain > cup bonuses or is the contrary,the problem is the overall amount of teams who can make and spend money on the market,that is too little.Everyone here in this thread said to you that we are in a deflative period,so keep pushing to eliminate cup bonuses is wrong anyway,because it worsen this problem(number of teams who can spend money on the market and make the economic chain work) even if the overall amount of money remains the same with the swap among FA elimination and cup bonuses
Have you understood now?



Last edited by Steve Karenn at 6/22/2013 8:29:29 AM

I was thinking about how to get rid of the free agents and came up with an idea to remove the bonus money for cup wins - on a global scale this would take out BILLIONS out of the economy, we could get rid of the free agents and maybe (?) raise the value of players on active teams.

That's a start, but I think we need to take away gate revenue and TV contract money to really get people to spend more money on the market. ;)

Oh come on, don't try to act dumb.

My idea is based on the assumption that free agents take out much more money than cup revenue brings - I can't prove that, but as the economy is deflating ever since we saw those guys hit the market I think its a fair guess.

So, if we want to get rid of them AND not go back to the high inflation days, we should find a decent countermeasure, which could be cutting the cup bonusses. Its not that hard to understand, question is if my assumptions are somewhat accurate. If a GM or a BB (haha, joke) could enlighten us with some data that would be cool.

Well, I suppose the alternative to making an assumption is to, I don't know, at least attempt to mock up some numbers for consideration. So I'll go ahead and do that - with the caveat that these figures are all exceptionally speculative and I'm only doing this for the interest of discussion.

My first assumption is that the average cup revenue per team per season in the game is $60000. The way I come up with that is that in the first week of the cup, winning teams get 50k, losing teams get 0, but since there are a lot of losing bots in early rounds in population-dense countries, the average is going to be higher. So instead of 25k, which is what we'd know to be the figures in a human-only competition, I move it up to 30k. And then each round the number of teams winning an additional 50k halves, so we get a series of 30k+15k+7.5k... which evaluates to 60k. Of course, because the number of bot teams falls and eventually all rounds are played, the number could be lower but then because the later rounds have higher prizes, that could increase it, so I just stuck with the easiest value.

Okay, so we have 60k/team per season as an estimated "average" Cup revenue. I'm going to use a 40k user base because it's easier to calculate, though of course we're below that. So if you take 60000, multiply it by 40000 and divide it by 16 weeks in the season, that is a total of 150M that free agency would have to drain from the economy per week to completely offset Cup revenue.

Now, of course, how much is actually pulled out from free agency is unknown and I don't look at the global market really ever, but I have a hard time believing that it even draws out that much, let alone enough to necessitate the removal of the Cup income.

No,the real problem is that you keep sustaining your selfish vision and doesn't even care to understand what people have tried to explain you

Thats the same BS I was told when I first pointed out the 5th place problem back in the days. Guess what, I was ridiculed, called names and after a few seasons it was semi-fixed.

And as long as you don't come up with an idea of your own its pretty useless to critizise my position. If you see a problem with general liquidity it would be up to you to present a solution.

No,the real problem is that you keep sustaining your selfish vision and doesn't even care to understand what people have tried to explain you

Thats the same BS I was told when I first pointed out the 5th place problem back in the days. Guess what, I was ridiculed, called names and after a few seasons it was semi-fixed.

And as long as you don't come up with an idea of your own its pretty useless to critizise my position. If you see a problem with general liquidity it would be up to you to present a solution.

the 5th place problem was a thing that was common to any manager with an half-brain,we disccussed about it a lot in italian community and I'm sure other big national community did the same for seasons
Your actual position is bad,that's why I criticize it.
FA elimination can't be swapped with cup bonuses.Having being said that,if you have some good proposal,I'll be happy to listen it.But this is not
If you think that money need to be eliminated from the game to keep the overall amount of money stable due on FA elimination,act on something else,not on cap bonuses.Act on TV contract/gate revenue of the non competitive games/leagues/(and this would avoid the VS of the world that tank for many season and then make 30 milions and win the B3),don't touch cup bonuses

I'm not contrary as principle to FA elimination,the problem is that when you want to swap it with cap bonuses to keep the defactvie econoimy stable

Hey!

As its not a suggestion yet, I wanted to start a discussion here. I was thinking about how to get rid of the free agents and came up with an idea to remove the bonus money for cup wins - on a global scale this would take out BILLIONS out of the economy, we could get rid of the free agents and maybe (?) raise the value of players on active teams.

Completely illogical. If you have less money in the pocket will you buy more expensive clothes?

There is no doubt we have deflation. It is bad situation, because it stops expenses. Why shall I buy players today, if tomorrow each of my 1$ will have more purchasing power? Then I'll ask myself another question: Why shall I buy players tomorrow, if the day after tomorrow each of my 1$ will have more purchasing power?That's why tanking is so much profitable. How to turn deflation into inflation? We need more money in the system. How to do it? We should find out where money is out (more limits), and where is in (more possibilites). Few examples where money is out of the system:
- buying staff,
- paying salaries,
- taxes from transfers,
- free agents,
- rebuilding arena
- etc.

Where money is in:
- sold tickets,
- national cup,
- tv contracts and merchandise,
- bonuses,
- etc.

We can pump up transfer prices buy reducing salaries (each skill cost less than now), no free agent system (less players on the market), smaller costs of rebuilind arena (honestly, i don't think it as a problem for a system). These thing limits our money. What will make our pockets bigger? More attendance, higher tv contracts and merchandise, higher bonuses (promotion), but i would like to focus on national cup. Currently this system gives us less money than we could earn from selling tickes on cup games. Converting bonuses for sold tickets (for cup games and scrimmages) and reducing free agents should help the economy. What's more, less teams will tank'n'bank, because cup games will be so profitable.

Completely illogical. If you have less money in the pocket will you buy more expensive clothes?

Like always its a function of demand and supply. If there are less players availiable and no money leaves the system due to free agency it is logical (sic!) that the player value and thus transfer prices will rise.

Question is if this will cause inflation and if yes, which countermeasures should be taken (my suggestion cut the cup money) to avoid too high inflation.

Completely illogical. If you have less money in the pocket will you buy more expensive clothes?

Like always its a function of demand and supply. If there are less players availiable and no money leaves the system due to free agency it is logical (sic!) that the player value and thus transfer prices will rise.

Question is if this will cause inflation and if yes, which countermeasures should be taken (my suggestion cut the cup money) to avoid too high inflation.

1 Inflation is not a problem since we are in a moment of big deflation,so FA can be eventually restored without touching any other aspect of the economy if that's your goal
2 You don't solve the problem that I showed you and you keep ignoring and ignoring and ignoring.You don't increase the number of teams that can spend money swapping FA for cap bonuses,because a lot of teams can't make money and thus can't spend money on the market.How are you supposed to answer to that?

I'll have to assume that you are unable to see the bigger picture.

Maybe my assumptions are wrong, but as you fail to provide data to prove me wrong you won't be able to shut me up.