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Effect of Driving?

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259374.21 in reply to 259374.20
Date: 6/17/2014 11:26:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5959
low level of driving I mean.

This Post:
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259374.23 in reply to 259374.21
Date: 6/18/2014 9:46:10 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
im just not convinced that it works like this. I know it seems logical, but i have just seen too many examples where this doesn't happen.

eg: Why does a PG player with slightly poorer driving than passing, in a patient offense, still drive 75% of the time? And then only hit 30% of his shots?

So im just not convinced that you can create a 'pass first' player, UNLESS there is a drastic difference in the passing and driving and EVEN THEN, i think its also assoicated with jump shot and jump range and inside shot.

eg:: Driving - mediocre - Passing - Marvelous

That level of difference.

Last edited by Coach Regan at 6/18/2014 11:00:44 PM

This Post:
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259374.24 in reply to 259374.23
Date: 6/19/2014 5:02:49 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
5959
but how about shoot first players sir? how low should be the passing?

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259374.26 in reply to 259374.24
Date: 6/19/2014 9:33:04 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
sorry im going to backtrack a bit here and look at this from a bit of a bigger picture.
because I think it is not quite right to be thinking that the game works in the way you want it to work........I know you are after a guy who shoots first (and also is a good shoot first player) but lets try and work through why it just doesn't work like that.

Lets try to break it down a bit more to reality of what happens in the game engine.
Lets say your playing Base Offense. Against a M2M.

And your lineup (from an offensive perspective) is
PG - Balanaced guard with some extra passing
SG - Balance guard player (passing and driving equal) but with no inside shot
SF - balanced player all round (inside and out) except he has no outside shot
PF - excellent driving and inside shot and good Jump shot.
C - Good IS, but low driving

in the above scenario, assuming that the defense is equal across all positions, you would expect the PF and probably the SF to take the majority of shots, the SG probably third. (lets just say that it is this, and lets not pick hairs). The PF would score quite well, aboe 50% clip (probably), SF again would probably take advantage of the mismatches inside and shoot nicely from inside, but poorly from outside, so he might shoot 45% and the SG would shoot ok as well, maybe 40-45% (because he has OK driving, he will drive as well as pass as well as catch-n-shoot, but his IS is poor, so his driving won't lead to many shots sunk, in general. )

Lets change the scenario so its unbalanced and has your 'shoot first' player in it at SG.

PG - Balanaced guard with some extra passing
SG - Awesome Jump shot and Jump Range, but has lower passing (than above), low driving, and no inside shot .
SF - balanced player all round except he has no outside shot
PF - excellent driving and inside shot and good Jump shot.
C - Good IS, but low driving

Exact same lineup, except we have thrown in the 'shoot first' player at SG.

What would you except to happen? No seriously, id like to hear some feedback from people here.

This is what i think.
In my opinion, the SG would shoot worse than the player at the top. He might take more shots, especially from outside, but because he has no passing and no driving, he has no ability to create his own shot. Everytime he gets the ball he is either going to turn it over (bad pass), he won't drive (or if he does, he will have it stolen) and so he is almost stuck to the spot, so if he has to shoot, he is going to have a defender in his face and shoot poorly.

So i guess the point im trying to make is:
- To make a good shooting player who will sometimes shoot first - he still needs driving and passing skills... sounds illogical right?
Think about this in real life basketball. If you are going to play against a team that has a guy that you know is awesome at passing and driving - what do you do? You play defense on him a step back, giving you the extra time to counter any drives, and cover passing lanes.
Guess what the opponent does? He goes "right, i dont have you in my face, so im going to pull up for a JS"..... By having such awesome driving and passing, you have implicitly created a 'Shooting' player. (thats real life).

similar thing i believe happens in BB. If you have a SG (like in the above 2nd lineup) all that is going to happen, is that the OD of the opponent is going to counter his 2 mono-skills. JS and JR and yer, he will be a shoot first player, and he will probably shoot at less than 40%... guaranteed. ....... if he has passing and driving skills, then the defender will have trouble defending him. Yes it means he will drive, and sometimes pass, but it also means he will shoot. he will probably shoot more shots than the other SG and he will probably nail more of them as well.

So its not so much a case of having 'lower' passing or driving to make him shoot more, all that will happen is it will make him shoot more poorly. ......Is this ki

This Post:
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259374.27 in reply to 259374.26
Date: 6/19/2014 10:08:57 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5959
thank you sir! great points!

This Post:
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259374.28 in reply to 259374.26
Date: 6/19/2014 10:13:25 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5959
I want to try something in a scrimmage..

I saw this player(4751714) that will be good to test..

will you help me?

This Post:
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259374.29 in reply to 259374.28
Date: 6/19/2014 11:26:28 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
yep if you want, it will have to be next week's scrimmage - or perhaps we can do it during the off-season?

I will be in the finals, so ill be trying to manage my team's minutes very carefully, but once that is over, i should be able to oragnise a scrimmage with you during the offseason and i can tell you what lineup I will set and etc.

Sound ok?

Just send me a PM in the week of the off-season so that i remember :)


From: Nicolas
This Post:
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259374.31 in reply to 259374.30
Date: 6/20/2014 4:30:50 AM
Tbilisi Mavericks
Umaglesi Liga
Overall Posts Rated:
6666
I guess my question might belong to this thread..
So I've got 2 guards with 17-17 ball handling and driving..other skills for one of them is: JS-13, JR-9, PD-20, and PA-13; for the second one: JP 16, JR-10, PD-9, PA-9..So how do you think guys, if I rely on these guys in attack and base my offense on these guys, what would be the best tactic in offence? Which tactic could be the best fit for their high lvel in ball handling and driving (alongside with normal JS) My guess is PUSH but would like to hear your ideas too

Last edited by Nicolas at 6/20/2014 4:39:01 AM

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