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Another lie the general public of BB tells people is SB has no elastics, SB training is prob more elastic y then 1v1f.

It has elastics with ID and RB and both these skills cannot be trained passively during outside training as IS. ID does get a bump from OD training but it's so much smaller than what IS gets from 1v1 that it's pointless to even mention it.

If you alternate SB/ID training you will likely pop one or both every week at young ages. Pretty nice elastic there for not having any elastic effects.

That has nothing to do with elastics, SB is a very fast training regime. Much faster than any other inside skill and I believe ID grows from SB secondary training more than it does from IS secondary training.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/6/2016 8:34:00 AM

Its not that I dont think RB doesnt work, I find the added effect above 14 or so to be negligent and would rather put the extra skills somewhere else. I do find it important to win the rebounding battle and rarely will I be out rebounded.
Id rather save the $$ that higher levels of RB cost and put those SP into SB or a scoring skill, IMO anything more then 14 rebounding is just inflation for minimal kick-back skill wise

My kid is averaging 20+ RPG in D1 and has got a good world ranking on both OREB and DREB. And that is the reason my starting lineup holds on against other teams and my backups get run out of the gym.

http://www.buzzerbeater.com/player/31801722/rankings.aspx

Check that: #1 in rebounds/game league-wise = #4 country-wise
#4 in blocks/game = #46 country-wise

He has very, very high SB, higher than his RB, yet there are another 42 players ahead of him in England in blocks/game in lower (and presumably bot) leagues...going with your reasoning it looks like maybe you don't need very high SB to get very good blocks/game numbers. In fact, if you go in his career stats you will see he had 3.8 blocks/game when he was 18yo (in D3) and he never got close to those numbers again (of course he played a lot out of position, but still)...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/6/2016 2:03:53 PM

I think its hard to compare across divisions and nations, Surely 2.4 Blocks in D1 is not the equivalent of 2.4 blocks in D4 or D3 or even D2 for that matter, By comparison my SF who i train out of position playing at PG mostly, avgs 2.4 blocks a game in USA D.3.
I dont think you train SB just to get blocks, IMO its just another number to help aid in the calculation of him stopping something, helps on every shot type and all situations..why wouldnt I try to exploit this obvious lack of SB in the world.

If your going with my reasoning and your big has higher SB then Reb and is still top 4 country wise in REB stats then I think that reinforces the idea that SB will help make up for that lost REB/Make what you have far better.

I think the breakdown is that if you take a guy with high IS/REB/ID/SB he will be pretty astronomical on the salary scale, you have to save somewhere in order to prop up elsewhere, Id assume thats why most people dont train SB, they want the guy to rebound, where I would rather ride my Defense and hope for a team effort in rebounding

Surely 2.4 Blocks in D1 is not the equivalent of 2.4 blocks in D4 or D3 or even D2 for that matter,

Isn't it the same for RB? I'm not talking about SB in a vacuum, I'm talking RB vs SB and how relatively high levels of both produce different kind of results compared to other players.

Basically I'm saying thaat 14 RB might be more effective in getting good rbds/game numbers than 14 SB will get you blocks/game

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/7/2016 3:42:53 AM

Yes, that is true. I however dont think that the impact of SB can be measured solely in blocks on the stat sheet. I think it helps the player play defense period, defend shots and not foul.

So, the same discussion like some seasons ago, huh? I started with SB around 14 seasons ago. That was before the changes to it. During this time span I trained some players to a ridiculous defense level (example Haek). During this time my players finished the season three times as the world leading blocker. And my trainee Nestor is going for his third consecutive title this season (currently nr. 4 worldwide, won the last two seasons).
After I finished with all my analysis I had a short talk with Marin and he confirmed some of my results. And one of them is: ID=SB. So I don't get it, why some of you guys are going for SB>ID. As long as SB and ID are not equal, you lose potential defense power. Both skills are linked with each other.
Another point (and I think I'm the only manager in this game who can currently test this) is the impact of a SB 10-19 team. Not one or two guys but a complete line up. The game enigne was designed to "react" and "think" in a certain way. It's not stupid and as soon as you use one great defender, the GE will try to avoid him and go for the other player(s). I have Haek (the best defender this game ever saw, OD+ID+SB=55) and Nestor (my trainee) in the paint. Haek intimidates a lot of opponents and Nestor has to defend more because he is the "weaker" link in this connection. Haek defends 7.5 shots/game this season and Nestor around 16 shots/game. And that already for the third season in a row.
So what will happen if you play with one blocker? He will force the opponent to search for another way to score. And if the engine finds another way there is no shotblocker. As a result managers say: "I have a blocker and he doesn't block. The opponents just keep scoring." We had this problem in the NT for several seasons. Haeks strength is also his biggest weakness. He can give a team a massive defense boost but also harm it if he has weak defenders around him. And this goes for all the other defenders/blockers. One of them is good, but two of them are devastating.

It's a pity that these discussions start every couple of season anew. From my point of view we could have already a finished GE and skill wiki or tutorial. But now that I finished it four seasons ago I'm losing interest in these threads and speculations.

Last edited by Nachtmahr at 4/7/2016 3:03:46 PM

I dont take part in the forum discussion much, so forgive me if i have missed your previous analysis. For me i have gone SB > ID mostly to see what it can do as it is a vastly unused skill, and I have enjoyed my results so far. If Marin has confirmed that SB = ID is best practice why is this not public knowledge and why are peoples views on SB so jaded?? I would bet 95% of managers dont ever train SB.

The only part i have a hard time believing is that the Game Engine is that in depth. Personally, I think it is much simpler then they want us to believe, Theres only a few Skill's, Its basketball and has 1 clear way to win. Being someone who dabbles in creating simulations for fun I just dont see any real depth to the engine outside of, pick who shoots, > is he better then defender > x chance to make it > result > next play.

Haek is a very interesting player, Id like to create a guy with 20s in OD/ID/SB just to see how he plays.
What are his defensive splits?