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National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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This Post:
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109310.216 in reply to 109310.215
Date: 9/11/2009 10:33:07 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
167167
Hello everyone

I have decided not to respond to certain people any longer. To anyone that wants to have a healthy debate, please feel free to ask anything you want and I am more than happy to answer.

To my portugese friends I want to say only 1 thing, I will leave it up to the english voters and the english community to believe whether I am running away or whether I am doing the sensible thing. I will leave it to the english community to decide whether they are happy with my ideas and my plans and to whatever conclussion they get, I am more than happy to accept and respect their decision when they have voted who they believe who would made the best coach.

I do believe that I am the best candidate and that I have enough enthusiasm ,time and knowledge to get the most out off the U21 team. In case the english community votes another coach as the U21 coach, that coach will get my full support and help when needed.

good luck to all the candidates in this election and lets hope we can get the U21 team back on track...


This Post:
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109310.217 in reply to 109310.216
Date: 9/11/2009 10:46:59 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
22
Well, if you're not defending yourself, it means I'm right. A few hours ago, you were accusing us of not being able to take critics. Before you said that, we had benn for days answering all the questions that were made to us, and defending ourselves from the users who said we were unexperienced, with no time or bad english talkers. The fact is, it didn't matter if they were right or wrong. The fact is, we didn't give up on defending ourselves. That's what you have made, more than one time,. The thing is, you are not ready to deal with the pressure of being a NT coach. Runing away is not going to solve your problems, instead, it will make them worse.

I don't know if you're going to answer me, but I don't care. I just wanted to show this to all the English comunity

This Post:
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109310.218 in reply to 109310.216
Date: 9/11/2009 10:50:08 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
you are amazing. you allways say that "please feel free to ask anything you want and I am more than happy to answer" but when someone make a question you don't ansewer. You have your reasons I don't know why you have "afraid" of have a conversation with us. We make all what the people ask. I didn't see nothing more us and you come here to say that "you are agressive" or ""you are insulting" or "I'm the best for this". You don't change the speech. when we talk about basketball, in case BB, you escape.

This is all to be a coach not to talk about our personal skills, least beacause we didn't do nothing like that. We just made a test tou your capabilities. Our intention since the beginning was made everything we want, and the other people want, simple. this your choice not our. If one have you want more than we show about our interst and our plans and our trust, talk. that's all we want. For a good thread good ideas, for a good job in NT good plans.

Last edited by Fenómeno at 9/11/2009 10:52:50 AM

This Post:
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109310.219 in reply to 109310.218
Date: 9/11/2009 3:41:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
66
Just joining into this discussion today, not because I'm not interested but because the real world can be demanding some times, especially if outside of BB you've got a job and a family. I am pleased there's a contest for the England U21 job, as I was worried recently that so many English managers seem to have dropped off their activity, partly perhaps for the pressures of the real world but I think also that the national team has not been an incentive for some time. That's a pity because we've generally had good managers at a national level, and we've also had a group of experienced and generally supportive club managers too.

For that reason, although the Portuguese team are right to highlight that England U21 has untapped potential, I think their approach has rubbed quite a few of us English club managers up the wrong way. The problem here isn't that English managers don't understand the game, or the training model of BB, and nor is it that we don't care about the national team. We don't need patronising, which I'm afraid some of the posts in this thread rather feel like. Much of the frustration I feel about the English national set-up can pretty much be put down to bad luck - we don't seem to do well in the draft, we haven't done well in the group allocations for national tournaments, often, and in individual games I think the English team has often played above its skill levels but still missed out on some crucial wins in unfortunate circumstances.

I realise that managers who ply their club trade in another country can't necessarily be expected to know this stuff, or appreciate quite why the 'spirit' in English BB seems so low at the moment, but I think a little research into the recent history of the England forum and so on should have warned you against coming in and saying that you wanted to "propose" turning England into a more active forum. If proposing it was all it took, we'd have done it a hundred times by now.

That said, I think it's a shame that the discussion has become so entrenched. I think "team Portugal" have helped us avoid a dead contest, and for that, at least, they deserve our thanks. England ought to be big enough that we can find within our ranks enough quality managers to run the national set-up ourselves, and it is a bit of a wake-up call that passers-by from another country think the English community is so dead. My preference would always be for someone from within the England community to manage the national team. That makes it more likely they'll be involved before and after their stint as national manager, and thus able to ensure continuity and help build a dynasty not a passing phase of success. But I hope that if they are as keen to help England assert itself as they say, they'll stick around even if they don't win the election, and maybe manage (and train) a young England star as well. Then they'll be in pole position next time round, and might win over managers like myself who would prefer to see someone we've played against in club competitions at the helm.

Astragoth's approach to team building is close to mine, and I've played against him in the past. He'll get my vote because I trust that he will do the best he can to get the best out of the talent available, and work in a cooperative way with the managers who are responsible for training up that talent. But I don't discount the contribution that "team Portugal" have made here, and I hope they stick around.

This Post:
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109310.220 in reply to 109310.219
Date: 9/11/2009 3:51:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
387387
yeah, I'd like to see the portugese guys stick around, contribute to the community, and then maybe run for election in the future. The fact that they've stuck it out so long means they deserve respect for that and should be welcomed into our community. I think they have zero chance of winning the election, and the true test of whether they are intersted in making a contribution or not will foolow that.

The worse case scenario is that we'll get a few posts along the lines that we're idiots who don't understand their manifesto and only didn't vote for them because they're portugese before they disappear into the virtual sunset. But hey, if they do lose but stick around and make a contribution, I'd welcome that - and I think so would everyone else. It's made me think more about being more involved. I'm afraid that I disagreed with Digging's selections and switched off from what the U21s have been up to in the last season, being far more interested in the NT.

So, as Wiggy says, I think we owe the Portugese lads a vote of thanks for reminding us that the U21s are all our responsibility. I'm still going to be voting for Astragoth but I think they've definitely added something to the debate.

Last edited by Elmacca at 9/11/2009 3:52:26 PM

This Post:
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109310.221 in reply to 109310.220
Date: 9/11/2009 4:12:59 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
167167
My new england 18 year old star... Has any off the english guys bought any english players yet? I have my eyes and a small bid on Luke Baker (10815850). He is being sold when I am sound asleep, so if anyone thinks he has a spot and some small change available for him, would be nice if you could buy him... I know he isnt a cracker, but he is definatelly trainable...

Jonathan Chandra (10816614) Power Forward

Weekly salary: $ 4 889

DMI: 13100
Age: 18
Height: 6'7" / 201 cm
Potential: superstar
Game Shape: respectable
Jump Shot: average Jump Range: respectable
Outside Def.: mediocre Handling: mediocre
Driving: mediocre Passing: inept
Inside Shot: respectable Inside Def.: inept
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: mediocre
Stamina: average Free Throw: respectable


This Post:
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109310.222 in reply to 109310.219
Date: 9/11/2009 4:35:28 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
First, I want to thank you for understanding our goals, our plans and our team. That discussion don't give me nothing because I want to show what we know through this debate but our nacionality seems to be a problem, but it's ok.

Second, of we don't win that election we'll be here to talk and help, but our plans won't be made. We have more to show but that needs your votes. Without that we just lose our time come here and said what we want, because I don't see any plan like our plan. Astrogath didn't show what he has to this NT.

I undrstand that for all of you is better have a English coach than have a Portuguese coach, but the nationality can´t be a problem if we show ou plan and the only thing that we see is "it's impossible". If you never see how can be impossible?
He wanted first an opinion and then get in the race.

If you don't vote in us you will never know if our plan was the right plan. I've allways said that this NT have more potencial that you can imagine some people don´t know. We prepapred that, we really want that, and more than everybody can think. I just want an opportunity.

From: hono
This Post:
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109310.223 in reply to 109310.222
Date: 9/11/2009 4:42:19 PM
Gausón
EBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
7272
Hi all, I just want to give my full support to my "archrival" Astragoth!! VOTE FOR ASTRAGOTH!!!!

This Post:
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109310.224 in reply to 109310.219
Date: 9/11/2009 5:23:03 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
22
The problem here isn't that English managers don't understand the game, or the training model of BB, and nor is it that we don't care about the national team. We don't need patronising, which I'm afraid some of the posts in this thread rather feel like.


I think you misunderstood me. When I said that, I was not saying that in England a lot of managers don't understand the game. I was saying that, in every country, there is a lot of low division managers that don't understand the game, and England is not an exception. Because, as you know, the lower the division is, the more series it has, so 1st league has 1 serie (16 teams) but IV league has 64 series (1024 teams). If we consider that half of this teams are bot, there will still be 512 teams. Every team gains 3 players in the draft. So it would be 1536 players in active teams. And by active I mean not bot. After this math lesson, the only thing we can conclude is that the success of a U21 NT depends on the capability of helping to develop this low division managers. That was the reason why we chose to focus on those users.

From: Soel

This Post:
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109310.225 in reply to 109310.221
Date: 9/11/2009 6:51:26 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
88
Good pick up Moo, he looks very trainable indeed. He's got respectable JR and ok passing and OD which is pretty darn important with young big trainees, as I've found out they're the 3 things you can't ever train - not that any of the 3 are *that* important, but it'd suck to have a fully trained PF on $50k+ and have him be atrocious at any/all of them.

Good post from Wiggy, I agree with the sentiment that it'd be fantastic if the other nominees stuck around after the voting, win or lose. It'd be nice to have some new people join our little community.

From: Astragoth

To: Soel
This Post:
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109310.226 in reply to 109310.225
Date: 9/12/2009 4:38:27 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
167167
ok I have just had a quick glance at the U21 teams we will be up against. captfalafel has been scouting and for fun send me loads off players with there salaries etc. The average is about 15-20k, with 2 or 3 above that. One is 60k.

Now have a look at the squads our oppents have. just have for fun a look at the finnish, bosnian, swedish and even the andorran squad... They only have 24 active users, but I was already scared off them since basketball is such a big sport in Spain. Oooh and dont forget to have a peek at the germans. are you convinced we can beat them?? Not even to mention the dutch who are currently ranked in the top 10, havent picked their players yet. If we can win 2 or 3 games we did great. So if you guys expect more from me, than I suggest you place your votes on someone else. I have taken 1 young guy on board and will sacrifice my own team performances for him, but he wont be ready for another 3 seasons. We definatelly need 10 more players to be trained, so I do hope there will be more players to take one or two english youngsters on board and train them. I cant expect this from you, because I am fully aware this would hurt peoples team performances. But asking people to do so, doesnt harm anyon. So dont expect me to achieve miracles with the current crop off players and the draw we got.

Last edited by Astragoth at 9/12/2009 4:40:41 PM

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