BuzzerBeater Forums

Overall I have to say the BB's really do a good job addressing issues and avoiding knee-jerk reactions to problems. Otherwise I wouldn't still be playing after almost 13 seasons.

I agree, in fact, I've seen Buzzerbeater make changes/improvements in a couple of seasons, that Hattrick would never attempt.

It's really pretty simple, allow for more flexibility and training options at more positions. The obvious one is the SF position which has be debated ad nauseum. The cons to this system are that there are very very few true SF's in the game and the only pro to maintaining the status quo is allowing those that have gone thru the pains of training SF's to reap their rewards.

Even that pro is a poor response as this is something that could be announced to be implemented at some point in the future, giving trainers time to reap the rewards of their past training while letting all user begin to plan for the changes.

Maybe it could be expanded in an extremely limited capacity, but I think the idea that "you can't have it all" is actually a strong point of the current system, and that there are several pro's beyond the obvious one of having a very good all-around player by the end of training?

1) If every position could be easily trained in every skill, I think the results of training something unique become less satisfying, because there was really not much sacrifice/effort involved and because more people are already doing it, and I would argue that the satisfaction of training an interesting player is something which sustains a lot of managers.

2) The ability to train players 'out of position' and still compete in their league is one of the very few advantages lower division teams have over top division teams: it's easier for me to one position train a center in OD for a season than it probably is for teams in the NBBA. If I want, I can try to use that advantage to build my team in a unique way that I believe will help me compete in the future, create players for resale who will demand a premium on the TL, etc.

Creating new, easier training choices would open up those options for established upper division teams while not really adding a lot for lower division managers, and the more advantages established teams have (or the fewer advantages new teams have), the harder it becomes for someone just starting out to climb to the top of the pyramid.

It's important for the game that people believe that with the right plan, they can reach the top; the fewer opportunities there are to try something unique to make up the ground, the more the game begins to feel like an endless slog of trying to be marginally better at things which established managers already have had time to get good at.

Not that anyone especially cares about my opinion, but I would hope they don't expand the training options, or that if they do it is in a way that still rewards going about it the 'hard' way. Example: you can train OD from the center position, but it requires 65 minutes/week, and it still trains a bit slower than two position training.

Many people did come from hattrick first though. The enthusiasm system is the one major component that seems to remain simply to allow an easier transition for users from hattrick to BB.

Overall I have to say the BB's really do a good job addressing issues and avoiding knee-jerk reactions to problems. Otherwise I wouldn't still be playing after almost 13 seasons.

Personally I like the enthusiasm system :) I think it adds a strategy component and also gives weaker teams a mechanism to increase their odds of winning games they might not normally be favored in. I would totally agree though that the BB's do really do an excellent job of making this game both fun and deep. Big thanks to them!

First of all sorry for the intrusion in the US forums:)
1) I would rather play a hard game than an easy game.
2,3) I partly agree with you. We need more statistics to compare and daytrading is one of the things I dislike aswell. But in a game we can't have everything realistic. Some things need to be tweaked in order to fit the game.
4) I disagree, training setup is one of the best things BB's have created. This game is about choosing paths, you can't have everything.
5,6) I have never played HT and never will. I love basketball and BB is the best basketball sim out there.
College basketball sim has 2304 teams total. I'll take a wild guess that some of the teams in those leagues are fillers (some of the active ones perhaps even not US based players). There is a cap in leagues between 00018 and 00027, which points to a fact that they have removed 8 full bot leagues. Taking that into consideration, I think more than 1/3 of the teams remaining are bots. I could be wrong though...

but I think the idea that "you can't have it all" is actually a strong point of the current system,

Personally I like the enthusiasm system I think it adds a strategy component and also gives weaker teams a mechanism to increase their odds of winning games they might not normally be favored in.

I think it's interesting that a manager is stating that these are issues that led mangers to leave the game. Really that's all the matters. Only the BB's have the means to survey active and inactive users to gather these details. I'm skeptical that either of these end up keeping more managers in the game then they chase off. Will likely never know either way.

When it comes to deciding the quality of a feature I almost always side with the reality test with rare exception (injuries are one of the rare exceptions). Neither of these items are realistic AND their ability to improve the overall game experience is debatable. All I know is that if I was to recruit a new manager or mentor a new team these are among the most confusing items to explain and live with. *cough cough, Mahody*

Last edited by brian at 9/15/2010 1:24:02 PM

I think it's interesting that a manager is stating that these are issues that led mangers to leave the game. Really that's all the matters. Only the BB's have the means to survey active and inactive users to gather these details. I'm skeptical that either of these end up keeping more managers in the game then they chase off. Will likely never know either way.

When it comes to deciding the quality of a feature I almost always side with the reality test with rare exception (injuries are one of the rare exceptions). Neither of these items are realistic AND their ability to improve the overall game experience is debatable. All I know is that if I was to recruit a new manager or mentor a new team these are among the most confusing items to explain and live with. *cough cough, Mahody* :)

Yeah I can understand your point of view, but I don't really share your skepticism, because these things add depth and strategy to the game. Without an enthusiasm system (or something similar) and a training system that requires trade-offs, BB becomes more like checkers, and less like chess, and I don't think that helps the game long term. I wasn't around back then, but I can assume that the game has probably grown tremendously between season 5 (when the OP decided to leave BB) and today, and it did so 'despite' maintenance of the two systems we're talking about?

The fact that a manager has singled out these systems as reasons he left the game is not particularly interesting to me on it's own either, because: the only people who are going to be posting reasons they are leaving are people who don't much like the current game; nobody is going to be posting that they left the game because they love the training system so much. In fact, since your post about changing the training system, three managers in a row have said that the current training system is actually something they distinctly enjoy about BB.

So, people who aren't happy with something are only one side of the story, and people who stay don't often spontaneously post lists of reasons why they're staying :)

(That's not to say it isn't important to get feedback about what people like/dislike.)

As far as reality goes, I'm for more realism too if it adds to the game, but in the end this is just a game (there's nothing realistic about a 20-something college student owning and managing a professional basketball team in his spare time via his laptop) and the most important thing for me is that the game remains fun, complex, and addicting, and I think there are plenty of features which are not true to real life but still add significantly to those game dynamics (ex: promotion/demotion, training system, TL, etc.)

(there's nothing realistic about a 20-something college student owning and managing a professional basketball team in his spare time via his laptop)

Mark Cuban would like to have a word.

In fact, since your post about changing the training system, three managers in a row have said that the current training system is actually something they distinctly enjoy about BB.

Three people in a row?! Wow, thats more then enough data to make a conclusion.

So, people who aren't happy with something are only one side of the story, and people who stay don't often spontaneously post lists of reasons why they're staying

Not sure why you're being defensive here. I don't like these parts of the game but if it brings in more people then I have nothing against the decision. More users equals more potential money and this is a business.

In fact, since your post about changing the training system, three managers in a row have said that the current training system is actually something they distinctly enjoy about BB.

Three people in a row?! Wow, thats more then enough data to make a conclusion. :)

We'll, it's more than two people.

edit: Not trying to make this into a flame war, but how do I not reply to something like that? We totally don't agree on this issue but I do believe we both want whatever's best for the game, so I won't keep arguing.

Last edited by J-Slo at 9/15/2010 5:27:07 PM

Not trying to make this into a flame war, but how do I not reply to something like that?

I did add the smiley face on the end. That's my failed attempt to come off as less of a dick.