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101838.23 in reply to 101838.22
Date: 7/20/2009 12:23:23 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
so more then hundred minutes are a bad sample, but one game are?

And with my star player concept in cup i see pretty strange varies in shooting percentages, and thats say nearly nothing about the miss match if i got a miss match they "searched" it and use it a lot but sometimes they have craps in the hand. And the not so good oppurtunities don't shoot that much, but mostly with the same percentage on the long run.

This Post:
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101838.24 in reply to 101838.23
Date: 7/20/2009 12:38:49 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
699699
But what were you commenting on ? Percentage or nr of shots taken ? I thought percentage.
Veltins, a 29 yo created in season 3 certainly has a high XP. He has good judgement and does not shoot unless very good opportunity or no other choice. He has attempted one shot every 10 mns this season. It's very low, he knows he can't shoot. So what's the relation with the first post ?

How do you interpret the differences in shooting percentages ?

This Post:
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101838.25 in reply to 101838.24
Date: 7/20/2009 12:43:32 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
we are talking about indicators, on bad shooting ;)

And if he takes shots, he ain't that bad ... And if he can get a good shot through his weak stamina, he won't take them like my linked player veltins. If he can and waste then a lot it is normally bad luck.

This Post:
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101838.26 in reply to 101838.25
Date: 7/20/2009 12:56:17 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
699699
All right, I think we have extensively given our views and we have different interpretations.

I have always enjoyed reading your insights on the game and rate them highly.
But I'll stick to my own understanding this time :)

Thank you for the interesting conversation :p

This Post:
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101838.27 in reply to 101838.26
Date: 7/20/2009 1:42:01 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
Maybe you and Crazyeye are both right?

I really disagree with Crazyeye when it comes to stamina. If you force a guy with atrocious stamina to play the whole game, there are going to be consequences for it. And it doesn't just come at the end of the game. He needs to get off the court every quarter or his performance is going to get killed.

However, Crazeye is right that the GE will look for your best match-up. It does this based on your offensive flow and also the quality of chances you are getting in the game.

For the player in question here, I have to agree that stamina is a factor. Also a factor will be the quality of players around him.

Jump shot will only have a marginal impact for a centre, in my opinion. It is true that a higher jump shot skill (and outside shooting) will help him if he gets an opportunity to take a jump shot. But if he gets those looks, he can just pass them up until he gets an inside look instead.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
This Post:
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101838.28 in reply to 101838.27
Date: 7/20/2009 2:17:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
699699
Yes, that's what I understand from the rules too.
But that the GE will look for the best match-up can be misleading.

From the rules :

The central part of the game engine is how the half court offense/defense works. The general idea is that a team gets a series of opportunities to score. What kind, and what the quality of those opportunities are is a function of the offense they are running, the matchups between the offensive players and their defenders. A player must decide whether the opportunity presented is good enough to take a shot… this of course changes as a function of amongst other things… the shot clock, the players experience, the score of the game, the history of the quality of shots the team has seen recently, the offense the team is running, and whether that rookie shooting guard of yours thinks he knows better than the coach does how good he is at making jump shots.


What Crazyeye seems to say is that if a player shoots it's because he has a good opportunity. No. There is a large number of factors why a player will take a shot, it's not always because he has a good opportunity and the ball will not always go to the best match-up. A good match-up is one factor.
In the case of a player having a high number of shots with a low percentage, it's an indication that the odds were actually not good for the shots he attempted.

edit :
so no, I don't think that ShohokuZ player attempted 21 shots that were good options and missed because of bad luck :)

Last edited by Manouche at 7/20/2009 2:20:38 PM

This Post:
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101838.29 in reply to 101838.28
Date: 7/20/2009 2:44:35 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
Yes, that's what I understand from the rules too.
But that the GE will look for the best match-up can be misleading.


...

What Crazyeye seems to say is that if a player shoots it's because he has a good opportunity. No. There is a large number of factors why a player will take a shot, it's not always because he has a good opportunity and the ball will not always go to the best match-up. A good match-up is one factor.


it doesn't look for it but it has a idea of an average shot they could get, if the oppurtunity is better then the actual one they get they gamble and pass the ball and try to get a better one. So in the end the ball would end most times in good enough matchups, and not in the weakest you have.
The average shot, is affected from the time on the clock less time means less possibility to get a good look after this, and the pace you are playing.

So it don't look for the best matchup and create more chanches for them, but it will use the chanches it gets, while the bad match up won't care that they have the ball and could through it on the basket. The result is something same, a bad shooter won't take shoot, unless he is matched against a very weak defender or got the ball with time running out. And if you watch often live yousee that attack aren't that accurate in the last 5 seconds, even when it ain't a buzzer.

In my eyes this also stands there in the rules you have quoted.

This Post:
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101838.30 in reply to 101838.28
Date: 7/20/2009 3:00:41 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
225225
Your team always tries to find the best possible shot, though the process is more convoluted than you might think -- and there are no guaranteed outcomes.

When the team gets shot opportunities in the first seconds of a possession, how do you know whether they are better or worse than the ones you might get later? You don't. Whether or not those shots are taken depends on some sort of reasonable expectation the GE has about what will happen over the possession.

So there might be cases in which passing on an ok shot will get you a better opportunity later on, and cases in which it will get you an off-balance heave from half-court at the buzzer. This, naturally, depends on tactics, match-ups, and how well your players recognize how good or how bad a shot is (the belief is the last aspect is controlled by experience).

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
From: edy_gie
This Post:
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101838.31 in reply to 101838.30
Date: 7/20/2009 4:39:03 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
i have a Center Player with MVP potential career...

i have training this palyer for almost 6 weeks for his Inside def skill ...

now his ID skill just reach Avearage....my question is...

after i lost my last games,i tried to think not to continue training him for ID again

i want to take another training such as one one or rebounding...

what the effect for my center player another week schedule ? did this differnet weekly schedule training made the inside defense training progress stopped???

please answer my question

This Post:
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101838.32 in reply to 101838.31
Date: 7/20/2009 5:09:54 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
i don't know if i understand you right, so correct me if i am on the wrong way.

Are you afraid of wasting his progress he made betwenn the skills(so called sub)?

If he have average and have an additional training, he ha ssomething like a 6,5 in this skill, without the training he got a six this sub has effect on game and stays.

This Post:
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101838.33 in reply to 101838.32
Date: 7/20/2009 6:20:15 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
00
no,what i mean is that i'm worried because after that last games

i feel,my team needs rebounding training than ID........

but if i stopped ID tranningprogress.....i feel worried for next weekly schedule

to train him again for ID training....coz i dont want to lose my time schedule for another player.....

now i have level 5 trainer without any speciality...

thanks l

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