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Game Shape & Minutes

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From: Ashurri

This Post:
11
196914.23 in reply to 196914.22
Date: 9/24/2011 12:28:21 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
7979
I guess I'm one of those people you call idiots however it's based on science, I'll name one for example, that a single cell organism cannot come into its own by itself unless you believe that a jet airplane can assemble itself from a junkyard after its being run by a tornado.

The probability of an average protein molecule made up of 500 amino acids being arranged in the correct quantity and sequence in addition to the probability of all of the amino acids it contains being only lefthanded and being combined with only peptide bonds is "1" over 10950. We can write this number which is formed by putting 950 zeros next to 1 as follows:

100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.00000
0.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.
000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000


But then again we are out of topic.

From: Tangosz

This Post:
00
196914.24 in reply to 196914.23
Date: 9/24/2011 12:43:23 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
573573
Horribly misguided and ignorant, but not uncommon.

As far as gameshape and minutes, I personally sense a trend that some players are just easier to keep in high GS, some need more minutes than others. Haven't gotten the feeling yet that the distribution of total minutes between games matters, or that the possible preference a player has for total minutes depends on stamina.

But, these are all anecdotal impressions, and as such have no statistical power to infer the truth.

This Post:
00
196914.25 in reply to 196914.24
Date: 9/24/2011 12:50:54 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
147147
Horribly misguided and ignorant, but not uncommon.


To what are you referencing?

As far as gameshape and minutes, I personally sense a trend that some players are just easier to keep in high GS, some need more minutes than others. Haven't gotten the feeling yet that the distribution of total minutes between games matters, or that the possible preference a player has for total minutes depends on stamina.


If I remember correctly from an earlier post, you've been tracking DMI and game shape this season. Could you be more specific in the trends you've noticed, if any?



From: rcvaz

This Post:
00
196914.26 in reply to 196914.23
Date: 9/24/2011 1:07:20 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
172172
If there is one thing we know for sure, is that creation "science" resembles nothing remotely close to science... You chose one of the cliche "evolutionists can't answer that! ha!" examples, which is just as valid as "if humans evolved from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys?" and "how do these people find million-year-old fossils if the earth is only 6000 years old???"

From: Ashurri

This Post:
00
196914.27 in reply to 196914.26
Date: 9/24/2011 1:17:48 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
7979
If you want to debate on creationism/evolution this is not the place. What I said in my post was exact science, I studied biology, it's something every evolutionists knows, including it's much more difficult for that cell to come on its own than that jet plane assembling itself. If you choose to believe that, then I respect that, and you can go on doing that. I just stated that I don't believe in evolution wholly because of science including findings found by evolutionist scientists.

From: rcvaz

This Post:
00
196914.28 in reply to 196914.27
Date: 9/24/2011 1:31:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
172172
I'm not going into a debate with someone who can put bible and science in the same sentence and not use the sentence for a joke. I'm not a biologist myself, but if your biology studies in high school still have you leaning towards creationism, than some biology course it must have been! And since I have better things to do, I'll just refer you to someone who should know what he's talking about

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/a_creationist_blog_quote_mines.php

From: pmfg10
This Post:
00
196914.29 in reply to 196914.26
Date: 9/24/2011 2:54:15 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
206206
Not entering in the discussion, but Richard Dawkins already explained that money part. Google it, just saying.

This Post:
11
196914.30 in reply to 196914.25
Date: 9/24/2011 3:39:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
573573
The first part was the whole creationism/ID argument. Anytime you hear someone say "evolutionist" it's a dead giveaway that they're a creationist. But I shouldn't even have stoked the flame bait, so that's the end of it you'll hear from me! :)

On topic of GS and DMI, like you said I have been tracking it pretty consistently for the past 2 seasons (though anyone who regularly uses buzzer-manager has been tracking it. If you click on your player where they show the week to week skills, they also track the GS and DMI from that week).

The only consistent things I've found are that DMI decreases 100 points every two weeks on untrained players. All my players are between 18 and 30, and salaries up to ~$7500, with stamina from 1 to 6. When I finally get a player to drop a second stamina level, I should be able to calculate the total contribution of a point of stamina to DMI (assuming it's all additive, at least when considering these types of players.

Other than that, in training mostly OD and PA, with some 1v1 this year, fully training of OD and PA increases DMI about 5000 on my guards, whereas 1v1 increased it about 3000. Again those exact values presuppose the actual skills of my guys, but these changes range from ODs from 7 to 10, PA from 5 to 8, and DR from about 2 to 7 or so.

It's harder to answer whether certain players prefer a certain number of minutes, or whether GS is affected by this week's and the previous week's minutes. I just don't have enough data to tease apart the random effects and the real effects.

From: yodabig

This Post:
11
196914.31 in reply to 196914.23
Date: 9/25/2011 6:21:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
14651465
Your example is incredbily fallacious because it assumes

1) That this is the only way the cell could have been arranged when probably infinite different ways would also have worked. It is like looking at a house and saying "what are the chances of every brick being exactly where it is so that the house can exist, 10 to the 950, must be the work of god." But anyone can easily see that while the arrangement of the bricks is indeed unique it actually doesn't matter, a diferent arrangement would have produced a different house it would still have produced something.

2) That there is only one chance to produce this miracle. Instead add up all the molecules in all of the universe, then multiply that number by all of time. It seems very unlikely looking at this that is wouldn't occur. Remember the old cliche? Sit a monkey in front of a piano for long enough and he will play Mozart.

3) Your actual example has some logic, which it doesn't. You are comparing something that happens with something that doesn't. It is like saying what is the chance of of me rolling 1000 dice and them all coming up with a 6? Very unlikely but possible. Then comparing it with what is the chance of the dice forming a society, building themselves into flowers and inventing socialism? Ridiculous. Like a jet building itself from scrap.

As far as GS goes it really seems to be a black art. I think I have expressed my theory based on a medium sized study that some players prefer more minutes than others. This could be a factor of age, stamina, hidden personality or something else, we didn't have a big enough sample (only about 100 players for a season) to draw conclusions. I do admit that my conclusions on GS could be false and this is where the previous evolution v creation discussion is relevant: any time you look at random events there is a temptation to see a hidden design and I could have fallen for this myself.

Last edited by yodabig at 9/25/2011 6:29:52 PM

From: Ashurri

This Post:
00
196914.32 in reply to 196914.31
Date: 9/25/2011 8:00:38 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
7979
The probabilities of that basic single cell forming itself is agreed by every scientist, no matter what they believe in. I am just saying I don't believe life created by chance because I think it's too complex for that. But if anyone want to believe life defied those odds, then it's their business, and I respect that. You sound so angry, relax.

From: yodabig

This Post:
00
196914.33 in reply to 196914.32
Date: 9/25/2011 8:12:12 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
14651465
Sorry if I sound angry. I'm not.

PS: I like your signature.

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