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Couldn't agree more Dire. We had this discussion last night in game chat and it is beyond me as to why teams don't have more of a long term view. I started int eh same seasons as HA and i'm playing in an ABBL semi this year. Why because i stuck to my plan to train up a good core of players. Bought players at below the odds and waited until i was good enough to promote and didn't have to buy super expensive monsters to do it that would hurt me in the long run.

As i said to Dire i lost the II.3 GF twice and lost in the semis once before i finally got the job done and promoted. Since then i have finished 5th, 5th, 4th and 2nd in my half. No doubt i got lucky with a couple of bots on my side but i still think my team has always been good enough to stay up and if the current offseason rules for 5th were in place in my first 2 years in the ABBl i'd be about 1.5mil better off as well!

I say this to all the new guys that start playing this game. Get yourself a training plan and stick to it. If you do your team and financial situation will progress along the same path as your trainees if you are smart with it and as that happens you will progress through the divisions.

I agree but with the sole point of actually "being able to compete" in the new level. Iwen and myself was able to challenge and beat low tier ABBL teams when we were in D2 so the transition and competitive level isn't as great for us as it was for HA and Adams Guns.

It was pretty clear when HA promoted here that they were a way behind in level and was relying heavily on a 300k C to win matches. In his case, for the sake of a long term view, it would have been smarter to tank and come back in another 2 seasons. He would have got a lot more cash which would help him win the next season back in D2 quite easily and would have had his arena built completely.

Trying to compete when your squad isn't really there only means you will lose a lot of games and still pay a lot in salaries. And being the ABBL, you can't save money quick enough to roll out your next star as you could do in D3 and D4 while paying "competitive" salaries at the same time.

Best advice is that if you have what it takes to compete at that level then tanking shouldn't even come into play. But If your team is no where near that level, tanking is your best bet

Don't think promotion is the best possible thing for teams demoting this season. Spend a season getting things right and balancing your team, preparing it for ABBL. Took me 3 seasons in II.1 to get ready for ABBL, two training seasons and a hard push for promotion in the 3rd season when I felt the time was right.

We only have limited resources so timing is essential.

yeah that makes a fair bit of sense but if you were good enough to win div 2 without 300k monsters surely you can compete in the ABBL. My point is that if you need to buy those freaks to win Div 2 you are going about things the wrong way.

For give me for I have sinned.

Yes guilty I brought a 300K monster to get to the ABBL

Yes guilty my plan for season 15 was short sighted as all it involved was getting promoted to the ABBL

Yes guilty in that I should have just layed down and not tried to win games whilst in the ABBL rather than trying to give you all some competition

Yes guilty that I went within a few hours of bankruptcy after winning the 3rd final in div 2 on a sunday and only just managing to sell a player later that same day to get me below the threshhold, before the economic update went through.

Having said all that I'm quite proud that my humble team managed to beat a few legends of the game during the season and whilst I dont have cash to burn, the squad has depth suitable for div 2 and wont take a lot of downsizing with some saleable young trainees to flog off and most importantly Ive gained alot of experience.

So yes Im guilty and with a bit of luck I could of even stayed up.

It was pretty clear when HA promoted here that they were a way behind in level and was relying heavily on a 300k C to win matches

As coachnoodles said, you should be able to compete in the ABBL before you get here. I'm not having a go at this seasons crop at all, it just seems to be a strange thing out there of "get to the ABBL at all costs". Why? If you know that the team you have or the team you are building is not good enough for the ABBL, why buy an extra player or two simply to win div2 and promote when it's not going to benefit you long term? Your team plan should have you at the top of your div2 AND improving as part of the natural progression of your team. If you need to 'rent' players and stretch just to win div2 (or any division for that matter) or if you don't have any plans for continued team improvement to start matching the higher division then you're not really ready to promote.

Again, i'm not trying to have a go at this seasons crop or anything, just baffles me when people don't plan ahead in this game. I'll use iwen again. He made a long term plan for continued improvement and stuck with it. He's now in the ABBL and still improving, he'll be one of the stronger teams in the division very soon.
Then you can look at the other side of the coin at someone like zyler who just tries to rent players he thinks will win a promotion then sell, tank etc, never really setting up any team plan for more than that current season and he's about to relegate down to div3 again.

There is a big gap between the top dogs in the abbl and the newly promoted teams in the abbl...

You can't expect new teams to train and expect to save up enough money to compete and stay alive in the abbl in their first season. You need cash to be able to buy those key players as well as backup players to survive.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows how to train players and have a road map to the abbl. Just some teams are more lucky then others.

Guilty

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

Having said all that during the season Ive sold 5 players of note including 2 beasts and 2 older players and brought 9 players of note, a couple of whom will develop into quality ABBL stars in time for my return, a couple of whom will give me depth in div 2 and are value for money and a couple of whom who'll I'll turn over for a profit.

Yes I'm guilty, I probably didnt understand the game as well as I thought I did and all that said, ive gained something that is of value and thats experience and knowledge.

Ive even kept two players on my roster for sentimental reasons - so how guilty am I?

Fancy trying to be competitive when my team really wasnt

Last edited by Sid Vicious at 7/13/2011 6:18:27 AM

you are guilty of nothing... to each his own.
main thing is you gave it a shot and learnt something.

me and you are the same
the only difference is I have bots on my side.. LOL

Thanks Koops.

No offense to Dire and he's probably right with what he said, but by the same token a couple of his comments could be construed as being a bit elitist.

Not every div 2 player has the knowledge and wisdom that Dire does which I guess is part of the reason that such a big gap exists between the established teams in the ABBL and the "want to be" teams like mine

Sometimes like life itself the only way to learn is to make a few mistakes.

That all said I could of continued on the path of mediocrity in div 2 that I was leading if it hadnt been for the taking of a few risks that ultimately led me to the ABBL

Last edited by Sid Vicious at 7/13/2011 6:35:41 AM

If you need to 'rent' players and stretch just to win div2 (or any division for that matter) or if you don't have any plans for continued team improvement to start matching the higher division then you're not really ready to promote.

It is still a legitimate strategy because you will make more money coming last in ABBL then you would coming first in D2. If you were smart about it, you would sell that 300k monster as soon as you hit ABBL and tank. Now in this scenario, you would have made 400k+ a week whilst tanking on ABBL salaries so you will have made close to 5 mill by the end of the season. Sure it my not be fun but cash is still cash.

Alternatively, you can slug out another season of D2. I can't speak for the other teams when they were in D2, but when I promoted out of D2, I was barely breaking even every week. I was making 20k a week by the time D2 playoffs was rolling around. Now, over the course of the season, i would have made 300k tops. So from a financial perspective, you are better off being in ABBL even if your squad physically can't play at that level.

Unfortunately this is a by product of the playoffs system where teams are rewarded with promotion by buying players 1 week before playoff begins rather than rewarding teams for consistency over the course of season and winning more games.