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Look: I think top teams can make 230k in D3. I've seen it, so it's nothing new. But $ 206k with better record and roster still compares very unfavourably to $ 191k from a 12k arena, because it means that the marginal gain from building those extra 8k seats in D3 is very low (and therefore making back the money spent on are will take quite a while).

Edit: Trainerman makes 230k with a less than 17k arena in D3 in Utopia so I suppose the max could be between 240k-250k

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/12/2015 12:33:39 PM

I don't think the English U21 and NT are quite in the same league as the US teams lol. I'm also not part of the staff on either team, but I'm sure there is plenty of better managers than me among the guys in the mentorship thread.

Last point I will make on arenas and tanking. When you tank you will have to consider that if you end up demoting you will make less money the following season (both the lower league and demotion will hit your income). That's a risk or a certainty if you are too far from anyone else's level and I think you need to factor that in your assumptions.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/11/2015 4:28:40 PM

I've never had trouble competing for the title and making $100k+ per week.

+eleventeen

And this is what I keep trying to come back to on the occasions we come back to this topic. The number of seats, the amount of money spent on players, etc. is all situational. What is most important, and what separates the better managers from the rest is the ability to be competitive and profitable at the same time. If you can do that, you can build your arena up tremendously, and then at some point you can compete on an even financial footing when you're already able to compete at a lesser footing. Likewise, if a manager never develops the capability of competing without having to outspend the competition at the level they're at, unless they can accumulate significant financial advantages in other ways, they're pretty much at their wall.

I think my as needed and your as needed differ a little bit. I feel "as needed" means when you are selling out or close to selling out a certain type of seats at your current price then that's when you should build.
Unless I've read wrong I believe you're in favor of higher prices and a lower number of total seats.

Yes, the part I bolded is one very good example of timely arena building. I agree with that.

I am not in favor of higher prices and low arena capacity, necessarily. I am in favor of putting fannies in the seats or the seats bring you no return. I am in favor of right-sizing an arena to prepare for imminent promotion. I am in favor of buying that critical player to fill the hole in your roster when he becomes available at a good price. I am in favor of judiciously increasing your arena when you have nothing better to do with your money at the moment and in the immediate future.

In short, I am in favor of being flexible and sensible with your money, not charging ahead and building the biggest arena possible as fast as possible as the recently silent expert from Japan advocates.

When you tank you will have to consider that if you end up demoting you will make less money the following season (both the lower league and demotion will hit your income). That's a risk or a certainty if you are too far from anyone else's level and I think you need to factor that in your assumptions.

If you build "as much as you can as fast as you can", you don't run the risk of demotion. You're at the lowest league trying to learn the fundamentals of the game. You could decide a smaller arena at higher priced seats makes more sense and invest in it when you have more income at the next level. How long do you think a recently promoted team who stretched the limit of their finances to get there will last at that level trying to build arena as well as their roster? All that eventuates is that you spend all the money you had on promotion, then you spent your higher income on trying to keep it, then you end up back where you started.

you don't run the risk of demotion.

Yeah and you don't run any risk of beating any other human manager either. I honestly believe believe suggesting that someone new to the game to spend all his money on arena encourages no effort in learning the game because basically you have no chance to beat the other human managers and you need no effort to beat bots.

Also a chronic lack of cash in the bank to improve the team and staff, at a time where you have no knowledge about training either, sounds like a really good way to enjoy the game right off the bat. Is this what you would suggest so that new people stick around? Build for a few seasons, log in every once in a while, instead of try and win the games you can win, learn and enjoy the game?

How long do you think a recently promoted team who stretched the limit of their finances to get there will last at that level trying to build arena as well as their roster?

This is not the point: you've seen above that a 10k-12k arena is perfectly capable of giving you 190k per game (2 of those teams have a 4-6 record). The max I've seen is around 230k for D3. Now why would you wait 5-6 seasons of building arena and nothing else for those extra 30k-40k a week?

I'll tell you another thing. Being able to set the prices is more important than the size of the arena itself.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/11/2015 8:37:08 PM

Build for a few seasons, log in every once in a while, instead of try and win the games you can, learn and enjoy the game?

Build for a few seasons, log in daily and learn from experienced players in the forums, instead of wasting money making mistakes like competing for a promotion you're not ready for, so you don't waste your resources and fail to progress in the game.

"Build as much as you can as fast as you can" doesn't mean build spend every cent you earn on seats. My first season with this team I was against bots only, so I spent enough on the players i needed to promote, built a few seats, then banked the rest of my $100k weekly income for a couple of trainees and trainer (investments, not buying wins). Since then, I have invested millions in seats as my number 1 priority. Why? Because I'm not ready to promote. Why would I spend millions trying to get to a level I can't sustain, when I can invest millions to be sustainable at the next level while being competitive at this level?

I make $150k weekly in div 3 (which is now the lowest div with only 2 bots) because I'm 9-1 for the season spending less than the salary floor. I don't need to promote, so it would be foolish to waste money trying. I'd make slighty more at div 2, but ultimately would have to spend millions (on top of the millions I spent to get there) just to avoid relegation. Where would I find the millions that I've invested already in arena and training at this level while trying to keep my head above water and avoid demotion at the next?

Thanks to all for the advices

I will stick to upgrading my arena. I also got a hint about http://www.buzzer-manager.com which helps you in finding better prices.

I think overall the prices seems not to be too bad except the luxury. There i will lower the prices to 400 but with the rest of my money i will upgrade my arena a little bit. I found some goods adives here

So you have around a 18k arena that is pretty much selling out your bleachers every week at near max prices. Aren't you giving up money every week not having those extra seats?

"Build as much as you can as fast as you can" doesn't mean build spend every cent you earn on seats.

Actually it means exactly that. If building is the winning strategy then you should maximise it. This is completely logical. Otherwise you will have to admit that at some level of arena and at some level of competition investing in something else like staff (cheaper but equal or better level staff...another thing people never think about) or players could give you higher returns. If investing in the arena has the best return on investment at any time then, logically, you should build until this is no longer true, which means when you can no longer sell more seats (20k+ arena). So, although you don't realise it, when you say the first thing you also say the second.

So maximising your investment for you guys means spending every penny on the arena. But you know what? Every single one of you guys, who are so sure that building is the optimal investment, have invested in players and staff which should be subpar investments....

I've had a bb-mail conversation with Trainerman about this and we completely disagree. I have a question for you people who can't think beyond the cash coming in every week: would you rather have a team worth 7-8 million more (i.e. by selling all players you will make 7-8 million more) or 6k extra seats (even if they weren't mostly bleachers)?

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/12/2015 11:56:52 AM