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My thinking is this...

Man, you don't need to convince us to feel better about your plan. Just do what you want to do; the road to get to a goal is always more enjoyable in BB then goal itself.

Let's assume you're starting to train an 18 year old MVP potential big man, say a power forward, which would you train first, the guard skills or the big man skills? Putting into perspective that the trainee will get 1 position training for about 4 or 5 seasons at minimum. I'm thinking that since the hypothetical Amar'e would be about 201cm-216cm tall then i would most likely go for guard skills at first, the gains would be faster that way and i'll get quite decent results in the first season. Or you would recommend equally training all of the required skills (i'm thinking IS,ID,RB,DR as primaries, concentrating on DR. Adding to that would be JS and handling, also a bit of passing and shotblocking.

Any thoughts?

First of all, I'd take a very tall 18y old with nice secondaries (OD, JR and PA at least Inept). I'd spend the first year training guard skills which are a pain to train with tall trainees. Next 3-4 seasons I'd train big man skills with a guard skill thrown here and there (mainly OD and a bit less PA and JR). Before he caps after 5 seasons of training, I'd round out his guard skills.

If you trained him in big man skills first, after three seasons you would get a salary monster that you have to play out of position for 12-16 weeks. But if you train his guard skills first, his salary becomes very manageable.

I support you on this. Don't listen to those who force training, thus making 21-years-old-or-so players with 100+-or-so salaries. You're still not up to handle those players.

I'm "forcing" training. I drafted a 18y old with all respectables in guard skills and he received balanced one-position training. At his 21 years, his projected salary is 40-45k. Is this really so much to bear, provided you promote in the meantime?

From your negative connotation when talking about one-position training I'd say you either had some bad experience yourself or you didn't train properly. I will give you another example: (13647772). He was being trained by a D.III team (he was in my league at that time) and didn't train anything else but IS, ID and RB; secondaries were all Atrocious except for JS which was at Pitiful. When he turned 21, his salary was 180k. Problem was, his manager didn't know how to manage his team wisely and he bankrupted.

You get a rookie with higher potential, you get a dearly bought trainer, and you force, force, force. In three or four seasons, the guy simply grows useless, as his salary grows to an unbearable level. Eventually you choke, you can't sell him for much money as rare managers won't them, or you could, with some luck, if you're training for money.

It seems like this happened to you. Sorry to brake it down to you like that, but if you don't know how to train properly, don't go around telling others one-position training is dangerous or useless, because it's not.

If you are in D.5, here is the recipe to promote in two seasons with one-position training if you are training guards:

- buy three 18y olds with P.Allstar potential - you can get all three for under 200k
- buy old and cheap PF and C, so you don't pay much for salaries
- first season train, train, train and aim for 5th spot so you don't pay any salaries in the offseason
- 2nd season, your trainees will have around 6-9k salary each, which is perfectly manageable for D.5
- aim for playoffs and few weeks before playoffs buy good PF and C with money you saved
- win the league, go to D.IV where you have a team that can compete with others; your trainees will have salaries 12-15k which is again perfectly manageable for D.IV team

Repeat the above steps, but replace "18y olds" with your existing trainees, and in two more seasons you are out of D.IV and promote.

This is a quick and efficient route, but it may not be enjoyable for many teams.

A guy fell in love with his trainee. Trained the hell out of him, and he was in the second division in my country (Slovenia is similar, a few more managers, one division more, but not a gaping difference). The guy would reach, according to his words, 240k as a 22-year-old next season. He managed to sell it well as the player tops the list of 21-year-old SGs in BB right now. The guy from your league bankrupted.

They forced training, not you who have your mentioned player. I have one too, he's now 20 and his projected salary for the next season is at 42k. But his first training this season was two weeks after the All-Star break. So how come you're forcing and I'm not, and we have two players with identical salaries, and I'm the one who doesn't know to train properly?

I never cared about the minutes, is he going to have 30, 40 or 48 minutes used, is it going to be two- or one-position training, and the guy is on the U21 National.

Have you ever been in D.V? It's full of bots, as you have only 650 users in your country. I know our D.IV is full of bots and we have 580 users, you can't be fifth even if you wanted. Get three 5k players on your team, and you will be a contender, depending on other few managers.

My main thing is this, with Two Position Training you can get 6 Players up to 70-80% of what One Position Training would give 3 guys. So not as fast, but not slow. Guards do benefit froms certain Big Skills and Bigs do benefit from certain Guard Skills, so swapping them during the Scrimmage for a 48 Minute (for the most out of position players) Game and then working the more well rounded players in as Back Ups in the trained Position can get me 6 players really close to or actually at 48 Minutes played a week, barring Foul Outs and Injuries.

I get that trying to improve 9 Guys isn't going to work at all, so not even considering 3 Position Training.

I also get that I will be forcing some guys out of position for training, especially once Hanson/Meert have the 48 Minutes for Guard Training and I start putting those Bigs in.

The hope is that if One Position Training is to net 14 Pops (on average) for 3 players (42 Pops) then maybe my method can produce 10 pops for 6 players (60 Pops) thus improving the TEAM more over the first full season of training that I get. Even if I can only produce 8 Pops each, that is still 48 Pops.

Some of these Pops will be exactly as expected, PG improving Passing, PF Improving Inside Defense, etc. And those, obviously, will help. Most of my guys are at least decent in the Main Skills, or close enough that I can have them there with this first season (while moving up some secondaries).

The other Pops will be the 'extras', like my PG getting more Rebounding, all of my Bigs getting Passing, Handling, Driving.

My expectations are not major, but assuming bad teams at Level V I do expect to see a drop in Turnovers (everyone improving on Passing/Handling) as we grab more Rebounds from every position. I also expect to see an improvement in Scoring (more opportunity from those Rebounds and less Turn Overs) as our efficiency should improve with the better Passing giving us better shots and the IS/JS improves.

Once the dust settles at the end of Season Two I can see how much the improves were for each player, and how much that improved the Team Roster. Then I can move to One Position Training if need be (not like I killed anyone, no one says I have a must train keeper on the roster as it is) to really push 3 guys, or focus JUST inside or outside for the next season on all 6. Start tailoring my team to a certain style and such.

I've still got a Relegation Game and Scrimmage left in this season that I inheireted, so there is even still some time to see some progress before the next season actually starts.

I appreciate all the advice, and I do see the logic in training 3 for One Position to make some really good starters. I also enjoy the Training to Sell aspect, it adds a ton of international flavor (like Futbol, since we don't really work that way in American Sports) to this game.

The main thing for me will be watching the Salaries to make sure I'm not inflating anyone to fast on Primaries when the team can improve off the Secondaries for cheapers, then stack the Primaries the next season.

Basically you will get 6 Small Forwards, which is not a bad thing. It will take quite some time, but if it's any worth to you, then nobody can say anything against that. However, I want you to know that differences between divisions are big. For example in my country where D.IV is the bottom division, there is quite a big difference between D.IV and D.III, while difference between D.III and D.II is even bigger. Difference between D.II and D.IV is of course huge. What is enough to do in D.V may not be enough to keep up with D.IV or even D.III opponents. By the time you get to D.IV, you will create 6 nice players that can keep you in D.IV, but nothing more. If you'll want to promote out of D.IV, you will suddenly realize that those 6 Small Forwards are good backups, but nothing more, and that you need really good starters that you either trained (but you didn't, since you trained only good backups) or buy the whole starting roster, which again takes a lot of time.

I just want you to know that when you lay down a training plan, you have to envision where you want to be in 3, 4 or 5 seasons and where your players' skills will be in that time. For example: If you want to be in D.III in 5 seasons, take few average D.III teams and look at salaries of their players. You will get an idea of what players you will have to make in order to get there.

Btw, my 20y old trainee received 39 pops until now. I expect him to get three more until start of next season, so that makes it exactly 14 a season. If you will train lots of 1 on 1 which gives more pops than others, you will get your 10-11 pops/season. But if you will train lots of OD, JR, IS, ID and PA, you will get 7-9 pops per season MAX. Also because you will train tall players in guard skills and small players in big men skills. Do you know that a 20y old and 190 cm tall trainee needs appr. 3-4 weeks for a Rebound pop?

A guy fell in love with his trainee. Trained the hell out of him, and he was in the second division in my country (Slovenia is similar, a few more managers, one division more, but not a gaping difference). The guy would reach, according to his words, 240k as a 22-year-old next season. He managed to sell it well as the player tops the list of 21-year-old SGs in BB right now. The guy from your league bankrupted.

It seems like what I mean by "good training" differs from your meaning. You are probably talking about Dado Beštija (btw, great second name, he really is a beast). Dado is exactly something a guy from D.V shouldn't do and what probably you had in mind when you said to OP he shouldn't train one-position. Let me take a guess here and say Dado's owner trained him in JR, OD and JS only. Is that right? Dado has great JS, JR and OD, but no Passing (well it's probably Average or Respectable, but for a guy with 84k salary still not good enough). He's a one-dimensional player. Put a guy with OD 16 in front of him and he will crumble. Salary is not the only estimation we can make about a player.

Btw, his salary is so high also because he has high rebounding (probably Respectable) and this makes a huge difference.

They forced training, not you who have your mentioned player. I have one too, he's now 20 and his projected salary for the next season is at 42k. But his first training this season was two weeks after the All-Star break. So how come you're forcing and I'm not, and we have two players with identical salaries, and I'm the one who doesn't know to train properly?

Now I don't exactly know anymore what you mean by "forcing". Your player has also high Rebounding (probably Mediocre or Average, if not even Respectable) which again makes a great difference. He probably hasn't received much Passing training, if at all. My player has Pitiful Rebounding and has very balanced guard skills, which in my opinion is key to make a good player and to keep his salary from reaching the sky. So your guy can shoot. Mine can too. Can he pass? Is he any good in inside tactics or is he good only for Run and Gun and Motion?

Have you ever been in D.V? It's full of bots, as you have only 650 users in your country. I know our D.IV is full of bots and we have 580 users, you can't be fifth even if you wanted. Get three 5k players on your team, and you will be a contender, depending on other few managers.

I've been in D.IV for a season and a half and half of the teams were bots. You can't even relegate from D.IV because there are only bots in D.V. Yes, you can get three 5k plaers on your team and win the championship. But can you compete later in D.III without spending a lot?

Last edited by Koperboy at 10/19/2011 8:50:15 AM

My main thing is this, with Two Position Training you can get 6 Players up to 70-80% of what One Position Training would give 3 guys. So not as fast, but not slow. Guards do benefit froms certain Big Skills and Bigs do benefit from certain Guard Skills, so swapping them during the Scrimmage for a 48 Minute (for the most out of position players) Game and then working the more well rounded players in as Back Ups in the trained Position can get me 6 players really close to or actually at 48 Minutes played a week, barring Foul Outs and Injuries.

You should instead consider having 5 guys that you consider real trainees and a sixth guy that can soak up the extra minutes if any exist. One of the benefits of the two position route is that it is quite possible to not have to play any of your players 48 minutes in a single game, but the only way to get six guys full training is to play every one of them a full 48.

But what you definitely should do is pick exactly five guys if you're going to do this, and have them be trainees, and then everyone else should be more of the cheap veteran add-on types. What you never, ever want to do is have a roster with 9 or 10 high potential young guys spread out over every position, since you're squandering their value.

The hope is that if One Position Training is to net 14 Pops (on average) for 3 players (42 Pops) then maybe my method can produce 10 pops for 6 players (60 Pops) thus improving the TEAM more over the first full season of training that I get. Even if I can only produce 8 Pops each, that is still 48 Pops.

That's a fine way of looking at it. And in the USA at least, you can definitely 2-position train guys that can help you survive in a IV league when you do promote.

The guy who owned Dado Beštija is from my league, just the opposite conference. He's not from D.IV, he's from D.II, that is a huge difference. And yes, very bad training plan got him where it got him; he indefatigably trained JR, which I don't recommend, the same way I don't recommend having JS higher than JR+3.

My player against his high defence (I think it's 18) shot 0-12, I think, but it wasn't Dado's night as well, my player is only 13 in OD -- Dado scored only four in 35 or so minutes. Yes, my guy has respectable rebounding, which, I agree, boosts up the salary, and that is all of his inside skills. No IS, no ID, no BS, only rebounding, and that is enough for me. I plan on never training his inside skills! And this is enough for me, I'm not aiming for the National Team, because that's nonsense, having a player that would be used only by your National Team coach (who is a bastard). I was talking about Dado's example, from a wonderful talent he grew into a useless player. Training should be easy, none of the players should fluff up like a bottle brush (R. Kipling)

--Yes, you can get three 5k players on your team and win the championship. But can you compete later in D.III without spending a lot?-- Yes, you can. I got promoted from D.III and I only had this trainee, who was 19 at the time, an older 25k SG, and an older 26k center whom I bought before the Play-offs. But after the promotion, you must enhance your team on all positions, which I did to remain in D.II.

Edit: If your guy is Dean Pholh, or something like that, he has 3.4 rebounds per game, which is more than 2.8 from my player. He must have some good rebounding too.

Last edited by LaCross at 10/19/2011 2:54:04 PM

--Yes, you can get three 5k players on your team and win the championship. But can you compete later in D.III without spending a lot?-- Yes, you can. I got promoted from D.III and I only had this trainee, who was 19 at the time, an older 25k SG, and an older 26k center whom I bought before the Play-offs. But after the promotion, you must enhance your team on all positions, which I did to remain in D.II.

That's what I'm talking about...if you promote out of USA D.V with 5k guys and end up in D.IV, you have to enhance your team with a lot of good players. And for that, you have to have some money.

Edit: If your guy is Dean Pholh, or something like that, he has 3.4 rebounds per game, which is more than 2.8 from my player. He must have some good rebounding too.

I was talking about Polh, yes. I don't know if ball falls into his hands or what, but he's pretty good with Pitiful (2) rebounding. However, most of the season I didn't have good rebounders, so maybe that's why.