BuzzerBeater Forums

...continued

If tomorrow someone comes to the forums complainting that expanding arena's gives an unfair advantage, what would you like BB to do? Set default arena sizes for all teams?
Do not reply to me by telling it is diffrent, because it isn't. It's part of the game. And the one who wants to see it gone can say just as well this is a manager simulation, where setting your tactics is the key, and arenadiffrences are unfair. To me it is just as valid as your argument.

Well :-) It is Different :-)
Arena and its seats are your team's resources and you need to manage that as well.
And you need to maximize your resources as a manager.
And to do that you need planning and strategy for it as well. You need to see how many fans are coming, how to maximize their amounts their revenues and your income from them. You need to plan ahead your arena size and you need to plan your tickets price strategy and you need to invest for it.

Now a player that has been in your team for a whole 1!!!! minute!!!! its not a team's resource. And it needs no planning no strategy. Just time for research player prices and some clicks. No plan No strategy No game play No brain work.
But still more earning than the arena size optimizing.....

I know that it an aspect of the game :-) But the way it is now it gives negative input to it and not added value for the game and its game play.
But if BB wont see that then maybe :-) I ll start using this aspect as well so I stay competitive with the others and advance faster :-) Ah yes and dont forget the servers overload if a lot of people start doing it ;-)

BTW check please my suggestion (69216.1) and tell me if that would help at all...
Thank you again. I am just trying to suggest to keep and preserve the fun and the purpose of this game.

Thank you for giving another point of view of the same problems.
Another view that I would nt be able to show myself alone.

Maybe a suggestion I posted (69216.1) could help bring more fun and depth to the game and a bit less Daytrading.
(among the other suggestions I made in above posts)

I am still a noobie but from my point of view it looks like if there were some sort of rule that made it so if someone just bought a player ---and within a short period of time they sell him again. The minimum bid price they have to set should be several thousand lower than they paid for him that way there is alot more risk with the possibility of someone buying him for less than they paid for him plus the tax hit it would make daytrading a much more risky way to earn money but still be possible if you really do research. But not make anyone rich in a few days.I notice most guys who daytrade for profit buy a player then start his asking price much higher than what he bought the player for so if he gets ANY bid he makes money...

While I agree mostly with what the GM said about it being part of the game, I must disagree with the proposed parallel between daytrading being similar to managing your arena. Swing and miss, sorry. Arena takes planning, ticket price management, and level of competition as well as other considerations. It is a strategy. Daytrading is an advantage that people who have computer and internet at work get over those of us who dont. Someone stated that in HT the top teams dont necesarily daytrade, but the majority of them do work in offices.....with computer access 24 hours. Yes, I have set my alarm for the middle of the night for an auction, but I cannot do this from work, as many of you can. This is where the advantage lies. I'm not suggestions anything to counter this, but it is a reality that shouldnt be overlooked.

I am confident that the majority of us know the difference between buying and selling players to improve the skill level of your team vs. buying and selling players to make fast money.

Does your boss know how much of his time you waste on the transfer list? lol

Over the past few weeks, I have seen so many accounts with a few too many transfers where the buyer or seller disappeared in their transfer list and that are blatently daytrading. The problem is I am not allowed to post names here so wont do this. I will also not report them, because nothing will be done about it.

Please do report any suspicious activity you see (this obviously includes overpriced transfers). Every single report is investigated. Users who report what they see help us act quicker and keep the game clean and fair.

Now, I must stress that daytrading as such is not cheating. Not when it means finding a genuinely good deal and selling the player at fair market value. (Personally, I don't like it and don't see it as a valid strategy in a management game where the commodity is supposed to be people (players), but it's not against the rules.) However, every sale at an inflated price either requires a transfer price adjustment or is cheating. We value the reports we get from other users on these cases.

The more details you can provide on a single transfer the better. Whenever you can ease our job, you can be sure you also make the game much fairer for us all. So, please do report the cases using the cheating report tool and spend a minute to think what sort of details you're able to provide us.

All I can say is thank goodness you didn't join BB back in late 2007.

I would be amazed if day-trading still exists with 20,000 odd more users/slower training and the new resale % clauses.

Back in the day it was feasible to make millions (day-traders would've scoffed about tie-ing up their money for $80,000 in a trade and looked for a bigger potential margin elsewhere)

Thats not to say I still dont try (much less so nowadays) to find a bargain or 2 and skill trade them to turn them around in 2-3weeks. That I think should always be part of the game and I hope that doesnt get eradicated.

Buying a 2k player and hoping to get a bite at 120k is funny considering everyone can take a look at the transfer history but one thing that I havent seen mentioned in this threads is making sure to list your players at the right time. I would put 80% of the capital i made down to living in a timezone that when I signed on there was often less than 80-100 people online.

If you have free agents expiring when many people are asleep then these are the easiest pickings going... now as i say with more users and i imagine a higher average amount of users even at a quiet time this is no longer possible ;-(

I would like to see a much more dynamic market with season loans / exchanges and salary bidding and if necessary a trading profit cap fixed per season.

Let those of us that like to shuffle our roster do so and as far as i can see there is still scope for the most skilled of managers to do so without having an enormous advantage on those that cant.

i thin sosta and myself are not talking about the people that sell a player for 1 million that they bought for 500k. or for 3 million having a value off 1 million. these are easily spotted and easy to deal with.

I am sure you agree there are many players untrainable worthless or close to this. They dont warrant even a sale price off 100k but there are loads off examples out there. You want me to report these players? That is what I was trying to explain in my post. daytrading isnt illegal or cheating. I know this, but it will destroy the game. and like you said yourself and like sosta said and what is my opinion too. this is a management game and the best manager should be on top, not the people that have the time to spend hours and hours each day watching on TL to buy players for 1k or 10k or 50k and than make a 50k or so profit selling them instantly onwards. This is daytrading and I have seen several accounts off players making millions and millions this way. Like I said, this shouldnt be possible period. I simply dont have time either to report all these transactions myself. If I would have the time I would start daytrading myself.

Anyway, I have said enough. This issue isn´t taking serious like it was ignored for many seasons in hattrick and now they seriously clamp down on it and we are in season 37. Dont see this being resolved soon if at all...

Cool. It looks like something could be done to improve the situation then.

Let's make a suggestions list that we can submit to the BBs via the suggestions forum (in a lovely list-like form) and maybe they'll take it into consideration for nexts season's (or the one afters) update. Ideas like they have to be at the club a full week (except draftees) or they have to play 2 games for the team etc.

This way it's not about opinions, there is obviously still a little problem with this DTing and the BBs can see that more measures may need to be taken.

there is obviously still a little problem with this DTing and the BBs can see that more measures may need to be taken.

I would guesstimate that 90% + trades that look suspect are in fact cheaters. There will never be zero daytrading as a buying managers perceived value of a player and the worth to their team at the exact moment of sale is going to differ in some cases significantly to the sellers.

What if you had a player out ahead of a crucial cup / play off match? What if the team selling picked up a new player innocently, exited a cup then subsequently listed some players he didnt think he needed til the playoffs... are you going to penalise him because somewhere in the world someone else wishes to progress further in a competition and he feels that 1.5mil is worth paying for someone who changed hands a week before for 1mil? If i want to buy a couple of players and risk 2-3mil of my money because i believe there could be half a dozen clubs who may get a key injury and need a replacement ahead of a crucial game then why do you want to stop me from speculating? I run the risk of not selling and tieing up my capital or perhaps making 2-300k after taxes. Big deal.

Cheats - yes, ban instantly. Traders or players that appear to be involved in a day trade, quit whining about. Measures have been taken and the market has died down so that the real dross no longer commands any sort of fee (and if it does then more fool to the managers persisting in buying them)

Last edited by Superfly Guy at 1/19/2009 10:07:25 AM

Well :-) It is Different :-)
Arena and its seats are your team's resources and you need to manage that as well.
And you need to maximize your resources as a manager.
And to do that you need planning and strategy for it as well. You need to see how many fans are coming, how to maximize their amounts their revenues and your income from them. You need to plan ahead your arena size and you need to plan your tickets price strategy and you need to invest for it.

Let me refrase your paragaph a little:
Well :-) It is Different :-)
Daytrading is one of your team's resources and you need to manage that as well.
And you need to maximize your resources as a manager.
And to do that you need planning and strategy for it as well. You need to see how many players are sold for, how to maximize the sale price without going over a reasonable price and and optimise your income from them, knowing that with every sale the tax you pay will increase significantly. You need to plan ahead how lany players to sell when and you need to invest for it.

Not much diffrence is there.
If you now say I'm wrong since you don' HAVE TO manage it, you are right, but so is arena sizing and ticket prizing.

Daytrading is so hard, and takes so much time, I don't do it anymore, I did it when it was easy.
And I am sure many BBusers are frustrated because it doesn't work for them, while others profit from it. I say, the ones who CAN profit from it, congrats, and they deserve the extra.
and I still keep saying the extra IS limited, just as you ask.
selleing a 1M player for 5M is cazy you say, they get caught easely you say...correct. Your solution, selling 20 for a 50k profit each month. I say it's impossible. After the tenth sale the taxes raise so high no profit can be made for any normal saleprice, so if they still want profit they need to ask obviously to much money, which isn't trading but cheating.

If you realy think it is easy, and an unfair way to make money, and I tell you it is within the rules, I'd say try it. I dare you. Try it, and then show me it indeed was easy.
Do not however buy a few players at normal (high end) price and sell him for 10% or 20% extra. Anyone can do that, and that indeed is easy, but illegal, since the price is too high. Buy at a low rate, then resell at a normal (or high end) rate.
Do NOT follow the transfercompare on this, since the high prices are often not trustworthy because cheaters increase that amount drastically, go with prices you regularly see in the TL for normal sales.

If you tell me, I don't like to do it, I don't like to play like that, fine.
But know there probably are players who like to trade, but don't like the arena-part.
So will every user like or dislike aspects. If we must delete all aspects some players do not like, we do not keep a game when the dust clears.

Lol, to be honest matey. I was just trying to stop the whining by bringing this discussion to a head. I honestly dont care about this DT thing but i don't like people not being happy and complaining/arguing about it. So if we just get a nice list of suggesions. The BBs can look and see if they want to make a change. No need for people to spend 15-20mins writing out a post that's just re-iterating itself.