BuzzerBeater Forums

None of this is a knock on your team but:

Cots, PGs & Assists:

I guess it kind of depends on what you value the assist as. I would characterize it as 1/3 of the effort (finding the open man vs. getting open and scoring). So you had 2.7 more assists than Fevre but 2.8 less points. Our average point per FGM this season was 2.135 (and yours was 2.058)

2.7*2.058/3 = 1.85 pts added. You'd have to conclude that an assist is worth half of a basket to make the differences equal which isn't unreasonable but then you also had higher turnovers.

Also, regarding this:

If I see someone playing PG and doesn't lead his team in assists, then I don't see a PG, just someone paying the position. In that regard, I don't actually see any PGs on your entire posted team.

It just conjures up images of LeBron James. Who's the real PG on his team, is it him, is it someone else? I sure don't know.

In the top 5 leagues in the USA only one person averages more than 6.1 assists (which is a pretty meager number in the NBA). The fact is, assists either aren't highly factored into the Game Engine or aren't stressed in training enough, but either way, they simply do not really exist as you (or I) would like.

That said I probably should have considered Youzhi as I did earlier in the season.

Second, I invite you all to make your own lists or criticize at will.

Since the gauntlet was thrown down, I'll throw up a list that is probably flawed. Too hard to go back and check on defense.. which is really close to not being able to evaluate properly.

In order of first to third. All stats are rounded.

PG
Louzhi of D.C. (14 PPG /3 RPG /8 APG)
Prado del Rey of GK (17 PPG /3 RPG /3 APG)
Cots of TF (13 PPG /4 RPG /6 APG)

SG
Amorrotu of NY (23 PPG /5 RPG /4 APG)
Lundy of Knick (23 PPG /4 RPG /4 APG)
Carmichael of Macs (18 PPG /5 RPG /3 APG)

SF
Paredes of D.C. (16 PPG /5 RPG /5 APG)
Waller of GK (18 PPG /7 RPG /3 APG)
Tapia of Slashing (17 PPG /4 RPG /3 APG)

PF
Timmons of Macs (18 PPG /10 RPG -59 FG% is tight)
Gascon of Spocker (18 PPG /13 RPG )
Ducoing of D.C. (15 PPG /15 RPG )

C
Turovas of 10 Inch (18 PPG / 11 RPG - 60% FG)
Negreiros of TF (17 PPG / 13 RPG - 56% FG)
Fuentes of Rash (18 PPG / 14 RPG - 44% FG drops him a bit)

At Shooting Guard:
1st team –W. Lundy – Knicktardeder – 23.7 / 3.9 / 4.3 – 44.0% / 36.8% / 62.0%
2nd team – M. Amorrortu – New York Jests – 23.2 / 5.5 / 4.3 – 39.7% / 28.5% / 74.7%
3rd team – J. Carmichael – I’ll Replace you With Jelly Beans – 18.4 / 5.0 / 3.0 – 39.9% / 31.5% / 76.7%

Fixed it for you. While we can't accurately measure defense we know Lundy's is far superior to any of your mercenaries.

Amorrortu is not a mercenary, he's a league MVP.

Anyone who plays for the Jests is a merc, no loyalty like every other New York team.

I guess it kind of depends on what you value the assist as. I would characterize it as 1/3 of the effort (finding the open man vs. getting open and scoring). So you had 2.7 more assists than Fevre but 2.8 less points. Our average point per FGM this season was 2.135 (and yours was 2.058)

2.7*2.058/3 = 1.85 pts added. You'd have to conclude that an assist is worth half of a basket to make the differences equal which isn't unreasonable but then you also had higher turnovers.

That said I probably should have considered Youzhi as I did earlier in the season.

Serious question. Why divide by 3 to come up with points added? Taking the numbers as legit, if my team averaged 2.058 points per FGM (field goal made, right?), then why divide by 3? An assist only recorded when a bucket is made, so wouldn't it just be 2.7*2.058?

On a different note, all the stats I posted were assist to turnover ratio. Nobody countered any of that in the discussion, only assists as a whole. I didn't argue straight assists. The counter arguments are some of the reasons why. I think when you look at assist:TO ratio, some big discrepancies are easy to see between players.

I am glad Fevre was brought up though as his is my biggest objection to being listed as a PG. He only played in 10 league games as a PG, which is less then half. He played a majority of league games as a SG. The way the game engine works, of course he has fewer Assists and TOs and more shot attempts. :)

I did make the "but the these teams were good this year, so thus they have to have all-stars on the team" argument. :) DC and I each made a very deep cup run knocking out NBBA teams and still finished with the top 2 records in the league while also playing in the toughest conference. I just think that out of the 10-12 starters on both our teams combined, one would be able to find oneplayer worthy of being in the top 3 in their respective position.


All that said, I bought Cots to be my SG, I just couldn't find/ afford a PG that was better, so he became my PG.

In trying to create an all star team, as you mentioned, without having good information about defensive contributions, it is basically impossible to build a perfect team that can withstand all criticism.

Undeniable proof that assist to TO ratio can not be disputed! 3 of the top 10 average rebounds per game players as posted on the league main page (which obviously means they are the studliest of studly big men in our league!) have a positive assist to TO ratio. (really, only 3? this actually surprised me) Two of these three are playing in the championship series!!!! Dilyar and Neg-something-er-other. Proof-positive and a perfect strategy for success. Why everyone isn't training passing and handling on centers in beyond me.....

I just think assists in the game are underperforming.

2 things that this game has trouble jiving with actual basketball are # of assists and free throws.

There's actually a dude on that list with 0 assists the whole season. Considering how much he plays, I believe this is near to impossible.. I don't care how bad he is at passing.

I just think assists in the game are underperforming.

2 things that this game has trouble jiving with actual basketball are # of assists and free throws.

There's actually a dude on that list with 0 assists the whole season. Considering how much he plays, I believe this is near to impossible.. I don't care how bad he is at passing.

Edited: there are actually 2 on that list

Last edited by Toonces at 4/15/2011 2:20:40 AM

Undeniable proof that assist to TO ratio can not be disputed! 3 of the top 10 average rebounds per game players as posted on the league main page (which obviously means they are the studliest of studly big men in our league!) have a positive assist to TO ratio. (really, only 3? this actually surprised me) Two of these three are playing in the championship series!!!! Dilyar and Neg-something-er-other. Proof-positive and a perfect strategy for success. Why everyone isn't training passing and handling on centers in beyond me.....

shhhhhhhhhhhhhh

What is this training thing you are all talking about? Maybe I will give it a try next season or invest in the draft. Hmmmmmmm.