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so you don't say that buying superior player, isn't a way of buying succes?

In my eyes it is the same thing, maybe with the diffence that you could play succesfull for a longer time - but maybe also need to wait longer to buy 8-9 high skilled (young) low salary players.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 4/5/2009 11:28:22 AM

There is a marked difference between buying a superior player and buying success.

Buying success can be termed as the over-influence of money in attaining success at the highest level in BB. I do not want this game to reach the point where it ccomes down to the teams with the biggest bank balance win the game.

Manager A has been playing at the top level for oh-so-many seasons. He has a proper long term plan, and his economy is near break-even to support his roster. Intending to keep his team in the black, each decision he makes requires sacrifice. Reducing inside strength for outside, reducing an overwhelmingly powerful team stat in favour for more flexibility.

Manager B has been almost inactive for oh-so-many seasons. He gears his team to earn what he cans, and during the course of time saves up an impressive warchest. Not to mention he was daytrader of the month while the game still held his attention.

Manager B decides to give it a go one fine season. He buys 8 monster players and works on a deficit of 1-2M a week. He logs in once every week to set 'Push the Ball' and 'Man to Man' defense. He blows away all comers and takes the Cup home, followed by the B3 next season. In the process, his bank balance drops to almost zero. He proceeds to sell all the players and goes back to being inactive and a positive income.

This, is buying success.

There is a marked difference between buying a superior player and buying success.

so your argumention is silly, because your problem you discribe doesn't exist ;)

I do not want this game to reach the point where it ccomes down to the teams with the biggest bank balance win the game.

in this case you have to punish people who get teir money to the bank account, or playing without money ;)

Manager B decides to give it a go one fine season. He buys 8 monster players and works on a deficit of 1-2M a week. He logs in once every week to set 'Push the Ball' and 'Man to Man' defense. He blows away all comers and takes the Cup home, followed by the B3 next season. In the process, his bank balance drops to almost zero. He proceeds to sell all the players and goes back to being inactive and a positive income.

In your system, managers B buys 8 monster players, and playing ptb and mtm and blows away all opponents ... With the different he wasting his bank account while buying 8 superior players, instead of blowing away his money on mondays. The result was the same, maybe with the different that player B has to change his rooster after each promotion or can not win the cup, while playing in lower leagues.

But now we wanz to use Player C, who playing a standard team in a high league, which holds the leagues because the lower div teams can't change their rooster fast enough to reach a overall quality to hold the league(because of the difference of the caps).

Player D is an team in a lower div trhen c, who make a impressive Job in building an infrastrukture and have an eye for tactics. Today he could compete with an first division team, who don't made that good job at least in the cup. With your system he only can take the money to the bank, and hope that he don't have bad luck in the PO or loose another good Managers in his league.

So the next problem is relegating, what do you want to dao with an semi active team, which is relegaterd and now have salary who are much higher then the cap?(the same goes for training)

Today they stay in the community but if you don''t have the time to rebuild your rooster, this system could be the dead of this clubs.

Edit: i replace the b for q in the []

Last edited by CrazyEye at 4/5/2009 11:59:04 AM

I don't want to punish people with money in the bank. You can still use it, be my guest. What I want to limit is the impact of money in the game.

All this scenarios only applies if the salary cap affects all teams regardless of standing. If we introduce a global limit of say...somewhere between 500k-1M, then only the top teams will be affected. I don't advocate the cap affecting lower teams, that wouldn't be fair.

don't you propose that depending on the amount of sth? Low league -> less sth.


But the other problem of salary efficiency of player still make this proposal a bit worthless in my eyes.

Actually a little further down the thread, the discussion got to the point where a global cap was the better idea compared to STH for this exact reason. :)

Anyone else with a view?

I like your idea, and would welcome such a solution if this becomes a problem in BB.

I play hattrick and, as you say, it's a problem there. However I believe the BB's allready made significant moves to reduce the possibilities of money hoarding. In HT you can still earn big money weektraining (buying a player close to pop, training for a week, selling with a nice profit), which is - in my eyes - what makes it easy to hoard money. In BB such an approach is not as easy as it is it taxed hard and affects your fans negatively.

Also, promotion is much easier in HT. The number of teams competing for promotion is half of BB (8 vs 16). The penalty for relegation - as mentioned earlier - is also far steeper. If dropping down divisions becomes a tactic for money hoarding, promoting up again might not be very easy cuz the lower divisions would be packed with teams applying the same tactics.

So, I still think the scenario you describe is a few seasons away - and the BB's have some mechanisms that can be adjusted to counteract a "hoarding trend", e.g:

- Increase the fanbase reduction when relegating (perhaps hit you with a multiplier if you relegate with a fat wallet)
- Increase the negative effect on fans if you carry alot of cash for an extended period of time (they would surely rather have you invest it in players)
- Reduce speculation in players (if this still is a problem) by increasing the tax on resale of players, or set a max resale price based on player development and/or games played for the club

As BB is still developing and we don't know how it will finally look, my suggestion is to wait a few seasons, use the mechanisms allready in place and don't act proactively just yet.

Well said by Borislav. I agree completely.

Thanks for the vote, Borislav.

I've thought of these measures, along with the transfer tax implemented by BB. The impact of these changes will slow hoarding by reducing income, but hoarding will still be possible albeit at a slower pace. One problem with measures that restrict income is that they invariably affect newer and lower ranked teams, and we know they have it tough already.

I believe that we aren't going against teams that like to have a lot of money, but rather that these teams can use their financial muscle to buy success. By restricting how much an impact money has on the game, hoarders are only restricted by the salary cap to buy success on the court. They can still buy any trainee they want. They can expand their arenas to a million seats, we would have no issue with that. But they can no longer buy 8 players with 150k salary each and destroy other teams with Push the Ball and Man to Man.

So I think the solution is to restrict what you can do with that pool of money. And the restriction only applies to the acquisition of highly skilled players, hence a team salary cap. If they can no longer buy like there's no tomorrow when it comes to players (Trainees, arena, scouting and all the rest are fair game), but have to rely on tactical skill for on-court success, then I believe it is problem solved for us. :)

I agree with you on not putting unnecessary obstacles in the way of fresh teams (after all we want this game to grow), and I guess some of the mechanisms already in place - if tightened further - would do just that.

Question is if many teams would have the patience to hoard under the current circumstances? I guess time will tell, but I'm sure some will though. And they'll possibly go about dominating the BBB for seasons on. If so, I believe in your suggestion, and think it should be viewed as an additional challenge, adding to the realism of the game as salary caps are enforced in some big leagues (to counteract the similar effect) for real (NHL, etc). It would - as you mention - bring some interesting aspects to the management of your team as to what type-of-team you want (star guards, star centers, evenly balanced, all star top 5, etc..).

As for the discussion of what-kind-of-game-this-is, I would also like to see the sport side (team building, tactics, training) get more attention than the management side (arena development, transfers). After all, it's a game about a sport we love.

So, again... Your suggestion is excellent IMO and certainly something the BB's should look into when needed.

Last edited by Borislav at 4/7/2009 8:17:35 AM

Out of interest how much do you think it will cost someone in your country to overturn the success you have built up?

Then, how long in BB seasons do you think they need to get to that stage.

Then at what level do you think your team will be by then?

I won't condone it but if someone wants my crown in Japan and thats the best way for them to do it then why not.

I've just read a post on farm teams that seem to be given the green light which i believe is absurd.... if that is going to be allowed (ok so they are not cheating but basically they will stop any balanced manager owning a NT player in the future) then money hoarding must be an option for any user.

I can only assume if it becomes a problem that BB's may decide to curb the speed as to how fast teams can save but we had day trading and then that loop hole was closed... why not allow teams to save up $10mil + (isnt that the plan anyway via training??) if they dont want to reinvest right away why should they.

If something is done about this before a rule change that prevents farm teams (which i cant think of a rule at the moment) then i will be AMAZED.