BuzzerBeater Forums

Aaaaah.
But the "old timers" also don't have the advantage of the 3pt line that current centers do. There's no where near as much collapsing in on the basket as there was in times gone by. Also, the game clock. It ensures that shots HAVE to be made, and the game just doesn't devolve into a game of "keepings-off".
Both these things favor the modern center, and significantly so.

What does zone have anything to do with it. In his first ten years Shaq would have dominated any type of inside defense Or did you see another 7 foot 1, 325 lbs. monster not be able to dominate the paint?:D

My point is, zone defense doesn't have anything to do with it. There still are some powerful centers out there. The single difference is that modern centers have developed a jump shot. And there aren't that many teams that play successful zone either... (IMO)

This is hilarious stuff.

What does zone have anything to do with it. In his first ten years Shaq would have dominated any type of inside defense Or did you see another 7 foot 1, 325 lbs. monster not be able to dominate the paint?:D

My point is, zone defense doesn't have anything to do with it. There still are some powerful centers out there. The single difference is that modern centers have developed a jump shot. And there aren't that many teams that play successful zone either... (IMO)

Not the point being discussed. Yes, Shaq would have dominated any defense. So would have Kareem, Wilt, Russell.
My point is that I think - as you suggest - that the position's evolved somewhat. And that to look back over a 50 year span, pull out half a dozen great centers then bemoan the lack of them today is a little incorrect.

Honestly, I'm not really sure its the zone defense that is hampering "great" centers. I really think its the abundance of other 7-footers/big men to play them defensively. I think if you go back and look at Mikan and Wilt and even more recent centers, they have distinct height and length advantages over their competition. With Shaq, it wasn't so much his height as his mass and strength.

Have you ever actually played organized basketball? With refs and coaches and everything? You speak about basketball from a paper pushing analyst point of view. Talking about defense while looking at box scores doesnt mean a whole lot. Please tell me the origin of your expertise.

Oh yes! Well... most of the time! Hey, one time? We even got to play in a stadium, instead of outdoors on the grass! And they had lights!!! They looked good even tho' we weren't allowed to turn them on!
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Just because my opinion differs from yours, doesn't mean that you can attempt to deride and demean. Yes, I've played "organised basketball". Both in Australia and in Japan. Currently not, as my life situation won't allow it (should I regret having both a job and a family?).
I hope you're not asserting that your own personal experience as a "player in organized basketball" makes you the preeminent authority in discussing elite centers in the history of the NBA. That'd be an interesting stance to take.

Honestly, I'm not really sure its the zone defense that is hampering "great" centers. I really think its the abundance of other 7-footers/big men to play them defensively. I think if you go back and look at Mikan and Wilt and even more recent centers, they have distinct height and length advantages over their competition. With Shaq, it wasn't so much his height as his mass and strength.

This is a very good point - and it's not like zone D is played to a great degree. Your last sentence is spot on with Shaq - I don't think there's ever been a guy like him with those advantages to that extent.

Last edited by malice at 6/14/2011 8:05:24 PM

Funny, for someone who has played organized ball you sure know little about zone defense.

You also posted that you had predictions on your website, and when someone asked why you hadnt included Chicago you gave no opinion, just stated "someone else wrote those". I would be most happy to send you links showing the decline in stat averagers among centers since zone was introduced and made legal in the NBA. You dont argue or discuss with anyone, you state your opinion and trash other based on nothing, just your gut hunches I guess. Did you eeven look into wheather center stats have declined? Im guessing no. You just thought I was wrong and decided pronouncing it was proof enough.

I am no expert on basketball, but one thing I am sure of is you dont know crud, dude.

Ok, you're obviously not a fan of civility. Fine.
So: "trash others". Ummm... Heathcoat? Read the thread, I disagreed with you - simply that. There was no trashing, no repeated rudeness. However, there have been some increasingly heavy-handed posts...

If you say so

Then

This is hilarious stuff.

Then this one...

Have you ever actually played organized basketball? With refs and coaches and everything? You speak about basketball from a paper pushing analyst point of view. Talking about defense while looking at box scores doesnt mean a whole lot. Please tell me the origin of your expertise.

Then to call me out on basically "merely watching stats", then offer to send me evidence that centers have declined in the form of... stats.
And evidence? Other than point to "an article you once read", what exactly have you offered in this thread other than to trash me?

You've been pretty aggravated since the beginning of this thread. Your opinions are yours to hold, and I respect that. My opinions are mine. And I present them as such ("I think", "in my opinion"). Perhaps consider that I'm just as entitled to mine, as you are to yours?

I really don't care whether you agree with me or not, and I don't know you at all, other than 'here' (specifically, in this thread). But I'm not going to simply trash "you" - as I have not the first idea about "you" at all.
Obviously, you have a bee in your bonnet about something.

Last edited by malice at 6/14/2011 11:58:15 PM