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personally I'm rather pessimistic about this, until the BBs give us a more direct indicator of remaining potential in the player information.

Does that mean you are a believer in sub-levels for potential? Or do you believe that balanced players hit their caps faster? Or do you think that the cap is a fixed salary for every level of potential?

Ok, I wanted to get your view before I said anything. I personally don't believe in the sub-levels theory. I have seen quite a few Cs cap out at almost exactly $60,000 in salary. Maybe I just have not seen enough examples yet, so I am interested to hear from experienced C trainers, but that is my feeling.

In fact, if trained in a balanced fashion and if you leave SB at around average, you can expect to cap out on an allstar C at almost exactly 3x tremendous if my memory serves me right. Lower SB and you might squeeze out a wondrous skill, but don't quote me on that.

I think that it is more like your second suggestion. I don't think the scale follows salary 100%, as the skills are weighted a bit differently for the cap. That's why extremely balanced players seem to cap 25-30% sooner than their uni-skilled cousins.

I also think people get confused because another feeling of mine is that training slows as you approach the cap. However, once capped it seems you are lucky to even get 1 pop per season.



Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 1/22/2010 12:16:18 PM

fwiw one of my older PFs capped at exactly 50k.

He was 48k at the offseason salary update, 1 training made him pop in both IS and ID I believe to get him over 50k. Then I wanted to give him 1 other ID pop before selling him, which took me 7 full 2 position ID trainings at the age of 23.

So he was like this at the salary update minus 1 IS and 1 ID pop. So even if there are sublevels, I think allstar * players cap at 50k, and I expect all allstar * players to have the same sublevel.

Ziv Shpigler

Weekly salary:
$ 48 281
DMI: 486500
Age: 23
Height: 6'9" / 206 cm
Potential: allstar *
Game Shape: proficient

Jump Shot: proficient Jump Range: atrocious
Outside Def.: awful Handling: inept
Driving: proficient Passing: inept
Inside Shot: wondrous Inside Def.: tremendous
Rebounding: sensational Shot Blocking: mediocre
Stamina: mediocre Free Throw: inept
Experience: awful

which took me 7 full 2 position ID trainings at the age of 23.

That is not capped - getting pretty close to the cap, maybe. Capped, I don't think so. Capped is when you do 1 position training for a season and get one pop.

Anyhow, like I said 3x tremendous is about where a C caps in my experience (when I say C, I mean very few guard skills to speak of). This guy was getting close to that, the extra JS and (maybe) driving probably pushed him over the edge a bit.

It is also possible that inside shot contributes more to the capping formula than rebounding.

Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 1/22/2010 2:40:25 PM

Ah ok, I was defining capped as a slowdown in training, but since it's a softcap it doesn't shut down completely. It just slows down more the more you train you player over the cap. So that would probably clarify the 10k difference then.

but since it's a softcap it doesn't shut down completely.

I think that's why some people start to believe in sub-levels of potential, they mistake the first slowdown for being capped. So far my experience shows no evidence for sub-levels, at least in allstar Cs with few secondary skills (and I'm speaking about allstar players, not allstar*).

The focus, I think, should not just be on salary. I haven't done a statistical analysis or anything, but it sure seems to me that multi-skilled players always cap faster than their salary would indicate.

Salary may provide an upper bound, but not much more than that. Maybe a by-position capping table would be better, since it is also my experience that guards tend to cap sooner than Cs (probably because by nature a guard needs more skills).


Last edited by HeadPaperPusher at 1/22/2010 2:51:51 PM

But I think most people (including me) would be more interested in knowing the soft cap (i.e. the slow down) than the hard one. It's probably better in most cases to stop training those players. 2-3 weeks of full 2 position handling training for this player without a pop is already too slow for me:

Weekly salary: $ 9 871

Age: 21
Height: 6'0" / 183 cm
Potential: 6th man

Jump Shot: prolific Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: respectable Handling: awful
Driving: proficient Passing: average
Inside Shot: respectable Inside Def.: pitiful
Rebounding: awful Shot Blocking: atrocious
Stamina: average Free Throw: mediocre

Experience: pitiful

Age: 21
Height: 6'0" / 183 cm
Potential: 6th man

Jump Shot: prolific Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: respectable Handling: awful
Driving: proficient Passing: average
Inside Shot: respectable Inside Def.: pitiful
Rebounding: awful Shot Blocking: atrocious
Stamina: average Free Throw: mediocre

Experience: pitiful

This guy strikes me as someone capable of beating their shadow in a one on one game. (just)

Age: 21
Height: 6'0" / 183 cm
Potential: 6th man

Jump Shot: prolific Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: respectable Handling: awful
Driving: proficient Passing: average
Inside Shot: respectable Inside Def.: pitiful
Rebounding: awful Shot Blocking: atrocious
Stamina: average Free Throw: mediocre

Experience: pitiful

Is this your personal BB-Avatar stats, 7ton? I wonder how you can have awful Handling and proficient Driving. If you can barely dribble and handle the ball, you can't drive with any proficiency.