BuzzerBeater Forums

Personally a SF need defense first when he "plays" at my team, so Outside and Inside defence are must have(optionally 20 more OD then ID). And solid rebounding.

In offense they are a lot of different way a SF could perform, maybe JS is the most consistent part of it and depending on your tactic also JR or IS(JR a bit more for me, even with inside tactics). But also a good passing SF, like an lock down defender and second playmaker works pretty good.

You see a SF could use everything, so that you will most likely never get the perfect one or someone who is close to it.

PS: The Skill described in the newbie help sticky, are crap don't look at them ;)

Last edited by CrazyEye at 4/21/2010 11:44:16 AM

tnx

PS: The Skill described in the newbie help sticky, are crap don't look at them ;)

For someone like me who has no clue about basketball, they are all I have to go on to build my team.

I haven't seen alternative interpretations.

It would be very helpful if experienced players would provide their interpretations of what newbies should look for.

at your stage, i would say a SF is an odd because he is good in many different aspects of the game -- he has some height (6-5 or so), can score (JS), has some skills useful for guards (passing, handling, outside shooting and outside defense), as well as possessing skills useful for bigger men (rebounding, inside shot, inside defense). if you can achieve all this (and think of it as a scale -- the challenge managers find is that training a SF to a high degree of proficiency in all these fields is impossible), then you have a player that is not only more talented than the player he is matching up against, but you have the benefit of a greater variety of tactical choices on offense and defense.

given that, i believe it is accurate to say most managers would argue that the SF should be able to shoot, play outside defense, and handle the ball -- if you are scrounging around on the TL, finding a player with the proper height and a head start in these fundamental skills would be a find. for myself, i abhor players who utterly lack certain / any skills ("atrocious"), but you make that call for yourself.

fwiw (and apply this to SF and more):

when i was at your stage, i went far with building a team that could play defense. my experience was a lot of newbies liked stats, high scoring, big offensive numbers -- good to be a contrarian in this regard. even now, and i am in div. iii., a good defense has kept my team competitive. but now the competition is such that i will not be moving out of div. iii until i get a significantly better offense (against pretty good defenses, remember) -- quite a challenge.

best of luck. and remember there are no hard and fast rules for div. v -- learn the game, there are infinite ways to succeed.

Thanks for this. What I was really looking for was a table in the same style as the one in the newbie thread about skills in each position. But (and this is not directed at you Hassan) although people are very quick to criticise that one, no one wants to come up with an alternative. So if you can't, or won't, shut up about it. As I've said before, newbies have nothing else to go on.

By the way, I'm in Div III.

And how are there infinite ways to succeed? What do you mean by succeeding anyway?



Last edited by CorruptCop at 4/28/2010 3:55:14 PM

My apologies for my rapid and sloppy reading of your level. I was really responding to your (now I see too modest) statement about "having no clue about basketball". I agree with your assessment about the tone of many responders / comments. If the question is sincere, we should treat it with respect.

A friend of mine once said to me that if you are playing a game correctly, you win. I don't know if that is true, but that is the easy measure of what I mean by "success".

"Infinite ways" : here is a short, off-the-top-of-my-head list of different things I have seen other teams do that helped bring about success:
-- one team did nothing but sell players to raise revenue. had a small stadium.
-- i've seen teams with tremendous front lines, but eventually they suffered for lack of guards. and i have seen the opposite.
-- colossally skilled players, very expensive. alternatively, in my league, the best teams have very deep benches, 8 players, all with relatively modest salaries.
-- coaches training their top player, others their top players, still others buying other people's training.
-- for a while, at a certain stage, i thought 19-year old players tremendously undervalued by the market. others only want 18 year olds.
I guess i am remarking on the wide range of choices / decisions / possibilities -- or more accurately, one must prioritize how one proceeds -- deciding on the relative merit of training versus building a stadium versus going far in the Cup tournament versus playing TIE while mastering the schedule and evaluating what other teams may be doing. At the very highest levels, I imagine the margins for improvement are quite small -- that the best teams are but one or two or five points apart, and i imagine that developing team free throws that may squeeze out .5 more FTs per game may make a significant difference because all teams have a good defense, good shooters, and a deep bench. Getting there means understanding this game in a very deep fashion, and i suppose i think there are a lot of different ways of getting to understand this game.
indeed, "infinite ways".

No apology necessary. Nothing modest about what I said. I am a newbie who doesn't understand the game, so I go by newbie threads to learn, and when I am told those threads are crap, but no one wants to come up with a decent alternative, it is astonishing.

Also I'm in a small country so there is nothing to be proud of being in Div III, trust me. There wouldn't be any skill in being in II either.

Your measure of success is an interesting one. I think I'd prefer a measure which is easily quanitifiable, and one which everyone has the same understanding of. Different people are going to have a different appreciation of what playing correctly means, and I guess under that measure everyone is a self declared success, and therefore the success has no value.

Your discussion of ways to succeed really boils down to different use of resources. This game does not offer infinite ways. You have only one way - build resource and spend it well. The more resources you have and the better you utilise them, the more successful you will be. Simple.

Last edited by CorruptCop at 4/29/2010 7:27:09 AM

I think he is trying to say there are a whole ton of ways to build resources.

I'll try to give my take on a few of the questions you have raised. It is only my opinion, but from your comments, I think you will appreciate these.

1) The newbie thread position skill list is adequate, simply not all-encompassing. In real basketball, every position uses every skill at some point in the game and the designers say (perhaps not often enough) that they have structured the game engine to show this. So no skill is worthless.

2) The question of which skills a SF should possess depends on the style of offense you wish to play. You DO need to make a choice here. This is where your lack of familiarity with real basketball hurts you, I think. Most of us that have followed basketball all our lives understand what it is needed to run the five different offenses. You need to select an offense, then buy/train players who can run that offense.

Defense is harder to advise on because it depends on what your opponents are playing. This is the reason you don't get solid answers on the SF question. What I mean is that a SF with high skills in OD will be less than useful if you are in a league where the top teams all have inside player offenses. He will defend well on the outside, but the other teams will overpower him inside.

Those are some of the reasons no one has a definitive list of exactly what you should train at each position. The basic skills are the list you see, what you do after that is up to you. And you do need to make choices to fufill your tactical choices.

3) As to success, there is only one real measure--win!

Other goals are more specific. Mine is to decide if this game is really worth playing. I played seasons 3-5, got promoted from IV to III and was on track to be promoted to II when simply stopped playing. Why? It was too easy for me. No challenge. Plus, too much of the game is unrealistic. I could write more about that part, but it would not answer your questions.

I hope that helps.

Oh yes, and watch more basketball on TV if you can. It will help you immensely.

(118426.7) - maybe you could use this one, this was the opion of three german NT and the guy who make it in this forum - you could also read it at the page linked in the signature but i believe the english part in the swedish forum is better then our german text ;) Even if it was a bit more detailed.

Cheers. Really nice post.

I've taken to watching ESPN in the hope of catching NBA and College basketball, however it seems every time I go to ESPN America they have Ice Hockey or Baseball on!

I have no problems with Ice Hockey, it is a rather cool sport, but baseball...ugh.

Basketball is quite rare to see, which is a surprise to me as I've heard Basketball stars command the biggest salaries and sponsorship deals out of the popular American Sports. Of course I am happy to be corrected on this.