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Vets don't bring ROI on the transfer market they do by helping win games. Even with the terrible squad I have together right now I can compete with teams burning 4+ million to buy (5) 20-something starters cause experience matters more than people care to discuss.

Trainees that you can buy for a lower value (or even better draft) bring you more money in exchange. All my vets together wouldn't have brought the money that one of my trainees brought and then I'd have to re-invest that money for players to compete (if that's the plan).

If I'm tanking I completely agree, sell vets, go with 9 guys that get me to the salary floor and say screw it. But the issue with that is I'll definitely end up back in DIV that way... most likely without a top draftee.

You didn't have to do that. (Sell them) you could have kept them and got rid of the rest of them the olds. I think you could have won 8 -10 games with those 2 guys alone.

I would not have sold them * the olds*, I would fired them and kept a small roster (5-6 people). I would have expanded the arena with that other money up to 1.5 mill. And let just it ride, while playing to win 8-10 games.

Your next season you could get a good young guard to hold you. I think in season 32 you would've had a solid team to get that title without a doubt. Its still quite do-able.

Expanding the arena won't help until I can get to DII. A team in my league (with over 300k in salary) is pulling in 210k from gate tickets, which is what I was pushing last season with 30k fewer seats. If I hadn't messed up and set my main teams prices to that of my Utopia, I think it wouldn't be as bad as right now.

Holding 6 players is ridiculous and asking to get relegated. My "old players are 33, 33, 34, 35 (all having high TSP with the 35yo at around 100 TSP for under 20k) and 36yo american, whom I'm considering firing once my Cup run is over.

I won 10 games last season and had to play in a relegation series, with a roster better than, so you can think I'll win 8 with a skeleton crew but experience proves that approach is false.

I'm not spending 1.5 million on a guard, tha rarely affects wins and loses against high OD teams one faces in non-DIV competition.

Also, firing 33yo's lands you in DIV for a lifetime.

Expanding arena always help, its more income,. Its harder to do arena in the higher leagues.

Holding 6 players is what your going to have to do, holding 6 don't mean just have 6 . "Have 6 good players" I think you should have 8 , but 6 should be good..

I think you can win a lot of games with less, its always about tactics, That team before was not the best you ever had, I don't think. I think you made a minor error and I don't think it will hurt you as much as you assume. Its a minor setback for a big comeback Imo. Try get those key wins.

Sorry to confuse, I didn't say spend 1.5 million on a guard, I said spend 1.5 million in arena and get a guard in the market or the draft for cheap next season , build him to pass/ score, defend whatever you may need.. This will help you get the title in season 32.

I'm pretty sure you can get it, if you stay diligent and confident. Its never over, there will be mistakes but don't let that stop you from making improvements and winning games. Everybody make mistakes,, but when the season start you have to start planning, every game is different so not all the plans are going to work.

Its about youth and tactics to, yes exp matter and olds do matter. But youth does win a lot games too

Last edited by Mr. Glass at 2/7/2015 10:06:35 PM

I just drafted my guard of the future, Devin Cash, already has good secondaries which is why he is marked as a Power Forward but at 6'4" he's got combo guard/SF written all over him.

The problem with expanding the arena is ROI, building seats now that will sell for 6-7.5% of the cost to place versus a heavy build when I promote and can make 10-12% of cost. This is assuming I can promote in 2 seasons.

As of right now I could expand my lower and upper levels a bit and still be somewhat profitable and that was the plan until I started getting 6-7k draws for home games. So expanding right now would result in getting a 0% return for cost in most of my sections, so even though I have the money, it isn't fiscally ideal to invest right now. It would be better to save and invest in a player that could potentially help me win late in the year so that I can have fans want to come to games next yer. Or potentially later this season with my actual seating prices I wanted, but I have to wait 2 weeks to see how that works.

I think we are built to weather this, it's just going to suck to have to lose 300k for a player I can't use for 3 weeks now (he's still at 2 weeks left in the injury department). ANd then at least 2 more playing terribly, so half a season of no real return on his salary.

What your saying is fine no argument there,it apply to principals. I agree with your views

Investing in player is good at the same I never look at a player as long term income versus arena seats. Some look at the merchandise money and think its what important. Its ok, in my opinion. Same as some people look rebounds as big deal. you really don't need them as much as some think. Its about points in the bucket Imo. Its ok to have rebs but it not deal breaker in all phases.

Winning is important yes, but with what you have expressed I think it would best to get more in your arena to see these players, this is more money over all. Not right now, it about the future in some aspects of the game. Its always way to create money in positive manner and win with less.. you can play in the cup and win 5 times. that's 250k which is very good extra income and do-able with your team. Its not always about the regular season performance.

I think what you need is a better Pr manager. Ever phase of the game has certain pr managers for the phase your going through or trying to do. Look the staff as phases thing not as just you know staff. 3level is highest I go with staff, I just choose just one. because Its cost effective the other 2 basic, If your playing in top league then of course your going to need all the 3 staffs. This is why you need more seats now to pay them later . Not the players out right,.

Player injuries suck.. Trust me I know very well, I have raised hell ands high water to have them removed from Bb because like you said , you get nothing to compensate for these things. At same time this were tactics come into play.

My last game my pf has 10ast and is not very good player but my foes pf and center were. I have done this many times.. You can build for the tactic and win games many of them by the droves and it does not have to be expensive in cost. Some tactics are cheap in certain player worth and skill to perform. This is why I'm very positive in view that you can win a lot of games with what you have now and win the league.

As far as players and money. Wins equal money and seats don't win games.

I hadn't thought about staffing (was putting it off for a season or two until I went after an upgrade at Trainer) but I found an advanced PR for less salary then my current Basic on, so I'll get to see if that helps with my arena issue.

Seats would be great but financial its a terrible decision. Say I have another player injuried and I really need to purchase a player, but cannot cause all my money is in seats that aren't being sold. It's just dead money. I still haven't paid of my last renovation. And as far as "the future" if I don't ever move up to DII the ~240k I was making is about the max DIII arenas bring in. (I could up my prices a bit more with an optimal fan survey as well) but more seats mean lowering prices and as I said, seats don't win games.

I'm fine with injuries, I just wish I got a time frame on them this 8-20 days for a 2 week injuries is kinda bogus. I get that its more realistic but in reality players have contracts that are based on performance, not attributes. But whatever.

Tactics... well, I have my team in good position for that. The trouble is that it is going to get far more predictable with a big time scorer in the middle. Wins games, I can.. the league I don't that.

The 1st part your really wrong there. Seats = money regardless if u win or lose. If your going to lose why not get paid for it. If you want to get paid build the seats. No seats =no money . You can win every game up to b3 but if you don't you have the seats in the correct amounts, you wont have a lot of money that you could have had. doing earlier is very, very much cheaper, It does not matter if they sell out in lower leagues,you can pay them off faster when you obtain 3, 2 nbba you making surplus on those seats then. No need to do any building seats. Those seats are covered pretty much.

Arena seats is your 1st form of income and best form of income on BB(safest aswell). I understand market and all that.But please know Players are getting better and better everyday on BB so what you had yesterday might not be good enough when you try to sell it next week. Im not your players directly, Im just making valid point this applies to all teams even mines.. Market is second form of income.

Im just saying it would be wise to do when things mellow out, think about it when the time comes. If want get more players then that's your choice. Nothing wrong with tha.t But to neglect seats for player over all is not a wise move.


Btw I have made 280k a game in low leagues before here since I came back to bb. I have not sniffed 3, 2 nbba division yet again. Why because I took the time to build the seats( arena). Im making a positive 135K$ a game that after I pay for everything. This going on right now. You don't have to win a game, to actually win versus the foe on BB.. Its all about economics sometimes.

Economics you say. Alright.

If I built my bleachers to 14k and should them at $6-7 and they sell out is that better than keeping the 12250 I have (that has not been selling out) and if those sold 11k at $11 (as they were last season or even 10$.... which would be more economical?

This isn't even accounting for the fact that I have to spend money to build the seats.

One of the biggest issues is that people think bigger is better and it's only better when its optimized.

No idea how you think you are making 280k in DiV, it looks like you are making around 170-180k max on your arena right now.

You also make it seem like its a given and a cakewalk to get to the NBBA and making 6 digit profit in DIV is a given, hopefully you decide to try to poromote and see what DIII is about.

I been div#3 before, this is not my 1st team. I had another team worth 150 million in reserves , So yes it about economics. It was cake walk then. Its still a cake walk now in IMO. I just got bored with BB only things keeping me here again is fooling around these tactics none use and trying to get them to work.. Its pretty fun this way than the other way. If I win or lose don't matter now for I have already one it.

Not to be rude or anything, I make more than you a game being one league under you even if was to be in div 3 today I would still make more not to sound arrogant or spiteful.. Why , because your not listening to anything im saying. Listen , the more seats, the more money!!. As far as which one is better in your example above, that depends which one is paid for 1st ticket price and all that don't really matter directly in what you get. Its a lot factors to play here to make it matter.. If your in div 3 with 14k seats that's still very low. should be done with area seats while in div 3, you should not have do any seats while in div 2. Its not cost effective to do seats in every league you go too., Its losing money.

Building bleacher alone is not healthy period, having a good arena is based good ratio of seats in all areas of arena. The faster you do this the money you make period on BB. Its a simple concept of make 100 cakes for less and sell 100 cake for more profit rather than make 25 cakes and do this 4 times and make less profit. Because you have buy the ingredents each time, three 25 times.

Again please understand it doesn't matter directly if your in level 4 and not selling seats out. It still more money than what you get in div 4 which increase every level of play you go to create arena income( because you don't have to do seat any more, they paid for or pay for themselves ). You can build them and pay them easier in div4 , than div 3 and etc. If build in div 2 , 1.5 million in seats you wont get your money worth for very long time, if ever.. To many other things going on, arena shouldn't not be on the to do list.

My team this season so far in come
Total: $ 259 229
Typical Weekly Net Income: $ 133 347

At one point in another league I was getting/making 280K and bringing in 150k.


So in 7-11 games or less I made over 1 million. So in your league I would make 1 million+ in about 5-7 games give or take. Why because I have the seats, it doesn't matter if sell them all out or I win or lose I will always profit more. Its hard to get every factor in your favor on BB to sell out in seats so sometime I will make less . As long it correct in ratios more than the foe had made for his arena is all that matter. Its long term economics.

Winning increase people to come to games yes, How much I do not know. There for I'm not going to gamble on that scenario to many factors playing that hand. Im going go for what I know and I know I can still get a few extra fans if I build the seats in correct ratios regardless. !100-500$ extra in fans in a 3500 empty seats arena is still good profit. Because the next man don't have those seats nor the right ratios. So he doesn't get that profit. Theres a seat cap on Bb, also seats are damn well very expensive and its so many factors to decide that Like seat ratios., So its all fair game.>> "Minimize cost early to maximize profit late"<tip

Last edited by Mr. Glass at 2/10/2015 1:04:13 AM

I understand your rationalizing cost analysis for the purchase of seats but you are leaving out the benefits of more seats. The more seats you have the lower you can set your prices. Lower prices attract a larger percentage of the population, it becomes affordable for lower income families.

Say you have a moderate fan survey. You have 1000 bleachers priced at 10 bucks each. 900 people attend the game at that price. You make 9000 bucks. However, 1150 fans would have been willing to pay 9 bucks for those seats. You would have made 1350 dollars more with more cheaper seats. These are just small simple numbers but easy to see the concept. BB absolutely works this way. I have a fairly well built arena. I wish I had built more lower tier and fewer bleachers but it is a pretty nice arena. I pulled in 375k my last home game and 372k the game prior. I would venture to say this is near the top in the division I play.

It cost millions to get my arena to where it is and it doesn't ever pay out dollar for dollar, but what it does do is allow me to have a much higher operating budget on a week to week basis. I have one of the larger payrolls in my league but I am still making decent coin weekly not including the cup.

Lower tier seats are less affected by a recent loss or a ding to your survey than bleachers. A larger arena with lower prices make the attendance swings more moderate on a week to week basis than a small high cost arena. A larger arena just makes day to day, week to week operations more manageable and gives you a financial advantage when you are truly competing.

These are my thoughts and they are based off experience. If you don't invest more in arena, eventually you are throwing your money away. Good luck in which ever course you take.

Last edited by Yuck at 2/10/2015 3:19:26 AM