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I missed something – Astragoth if you have this extensive knowledge of what is out there then the information you have accumulated would be useful and I can therefore either agree with you or judge for myself.

If you want to call it extensive knowledge, you are right i do have that. Let me explain why I believe there is a lack of knowledgable coaches in the english community and why this is partly the cause why there are no great U21 players available to pick from.

At the beginning off Season 9 there was a discussion, started by the current England U21 coach, asking us to look for, buy and train U21 prospects. On a few occasions he even posted them on the forums. I thought it was a great idea and I started scouting english players. Every 2-3 days I had a look for 18 and 19 year old english players. I noticed a few things. One, the players were or not good enough to be trainable or/and the prices that were asked for these players were way too high. Most off these players were not sold and clearly not being trained. Than later in the season, the players were relisted again, again at a way too high price. We do have a few trainable players that are drafted every season. But as I am sure you know, the only real way forward is to start a 18 year old player directly after he is being drafted. A 19 year old player wouldnt really make a difference, neither would a 18 year old player that wasnt trained for like half a season. Perhaps if he is a real cracker, you could train him, but how many real crackers do we have?

I wont give you names, because I dont have any. I dont have an excel sheet at the ready right now. But have a look at the draftees this season, just not in england but overall. I dont have exact figures and cant prove it, but from what I can see, the players with high potential are almost all 19 year olds and very few are interesting enough to be trained to become U21 players. With the 18 years it is even worse. Barely any 18 years have higher potential than all star and look at their salaries. Very few have a salary higher than 4500. With other words, very little potential among the english players, than combine this with the other problem I described before and I am sure you can see the overall problem.

That is why I would like to be proactive and contact coaches with interesting U21 prospects at the start off the season and suggest to train their players or else advice them how to sell them, at a fair price and not too high. This would help the U21 team because the player would most likely be trained and secondly you dont loose time with the players being trained.

well, good candidature.... How you think to be a NT U-21 coach if you don't know the team, if you don't know how you can search the players. The draft is enough for you? After your post I see that you don't know what a NT needs, or if you know show us.

I think that if you really want this, you should have a plan and for now I don't see anything. And by the way, an "excel sheet" don't give us what we really need. England NT diserve more than have at this moment and need someone that can have a training plan, helping plan, interaction plan... and many many more. The only thing that I saw was: you prefer a English Coach and don't want a good NT team.

if you put in the search criteria for potential U21 players, which in my opinion are 18 years old, star potential and minimum salary off 3500, you find currently 8 players.

These are the players I would consider being worth training

Ron Pike (10816619) lacks inside def though... However if being trained well over 4 seasons I wouldnt consider him lost and he could make a nice balanced SF.

Jan Kepert (10815158) same with him... very well balanced player...

Stuart McLeod (10816314) he would make a Great SF or BIG...

Jonathan Chandra (10816614) same with him but same problem as always, put up for 500k

and that is what i ment, i didnt prepare myself to put myself for the U21 team, but I already have these players since last monday on my bookmarks...

How you can get that DB. Yesterday, you don't have any player, but to get a vote give us 4 names with 18 years old. The NT UNDER-21 can have players with 21 years old. Do you know that?????? I think... No. Give me the minimum of qualities you want in your NT.

You Want Ron Pike in NT ? Jan Kerpert? When? This year? Next Year?
Stuart Mcleod will never be in the NT with that defense.
The same for Jonathan Chandra but with very intensive training will be a good player but depends the position

where did i say yesterday that i didnt have a single player? i just have said that I dont think there are many good players...

Ask me questions that someone can answer. In all your messages you are kind off aggresive, almost giving me the idea that you aren't a grown up. Sorry, if I am wrong. I stopped helping people on the forums, because most people are aggresive and are trying to know better than others and want to voice their opinion instead off really reading the message, trying to understand what is being said and give an answer that adds something to the discussion. Maybe it is a language issue, as I more and more get the feeling it is.

You clearly havent read my speech and are commenting not having the full information, i would like to ask you to first read everything before you respond. I mentioned in my speech that I see this as a 4 year plan and not 2 years. Simply because over the last few seasons I have seen and I am certain this is the case and I even given you prove already in answering another candidate, very few players have/are been/being trained (properly). So I would like to start from scratch and move forward instead off continueing to swim against the current. That is a fight, that in my opinion you cant win.

From now on I will only answer to proper messages, I dont want to get involved in fights/arguments along the way off "I know best". This is a debate forum and not a "let me prove you wrong" thread.

I dont know what the overal qualities are right now off the U21 players. How could I know? I am not running the team. The only thing I can go by is player ratings for players while playing in the U21 team, team ratings and salaries and compare them to other U21 teams. When you do that, your only conclusion can be that we are far behind most teams when it comes to U21 teams... I am fully aware, as we all (should) know these are only guidelines and dont say for certain how good or bad a player is...

from your question I get the feeling you have an idea as to what the minimum qualities off the U21 players should be. Could you please be so kind and share this information with us?

(8149805). (8150724).

What about this 2 players? Imagine that you are the coachand give us an opinion about them? you'd select them?. This question is for all of candidates.

Remember. You can make questions to me... I want that. I have to prove that I can be "your" coach and not your "portuguese opponent"

Last edited by Fenómeno at 9/9/2009 7:41:35 AM

well, good candidature.... How you think to be a NT U-21 coach if you don't know the team, if you don't know how you can search the players. The draft is enough for you? After your post I see that you don't know what a NT needs, or if you know show us.

I think that if you really want this, you should have a plan and for now I don't see anything. And by the way, an "excel sheet" don't give us what we really need. England NT diserve more than have at this moment and need someone that can have a training plan, helping plan, interaction plan... and many many more. The only thing that I saw was: you prefer a English Coach and don't want a good NT team.

I am not going to say much to this. you are throwing with mud, trying to twist and turn things that I have said and use it against me to prove a point, but you arent giving us any ideas/examples why you would do a better job than me or the other candidates, just saying I would do a bad job. If that is the way how you think a debate works, fine, so be it, I am not going to join in.

If the english community wants a coach like that, and you guys get voted, you will get my blessing too.

The only thing that I saw was: you prefer a English Coach and don't want a good NT team

it is quite clear you do have a problem with understanding english, because if this is what you understand from what I have said thus far than there is a serious communication problem...

Last edited by Astragoth at 9/9/2009 7:50:32 AM

In my opinion scouting is not the big issue here. I did pretty extensive scouting last season (note that you really have to do this once a season). It's all pretty automated and in the "Real english federation" there is a list of the players worth looking at.

The problem is that it's difficult (impossible?) to get potential stars trained to fulfill their potential. I found it impossible to get the right players in places where they'd get trained properly. Apart from some remarkable few players, that is why our NT efforts are lagging...

Obviously whoever gets elected will get the list of potentials, best draftees for this season, etc. etc. So the partial knowledge of the player pool the candidates have now is not all that relevant...

You Want Ron Pike in NT ? Jan Kerpert? When? This year? Next Year?
Stuart Mcleod will never be in the NT with that defense.
The same for Jonathan Chandra but with very intensive training will be a good player but depends the position

again, you are adding nothing new to the discussion. just repeating exactly what I said. And yes, I do believe players with these levels (right now) are the kind off players that one day might make it into the U21 team.

With regards to your questions whether I expect them to enter the U21 team, you are really trying to make me feel dumb and certainly insulting me with asking whether I would select them this year or next year, you can only ask someone something like this if you believe they would do this. You are really not trying to understand what I am trying to say. But different from the past, I will not join in a senseless argument if this should be a healthy debate.

Please share with us what the minimum level requirements are for players you would select for the U21 team...

ps you can use this what I am going to say, as being a stolen idea and try to use it against me, feel free, however I just read the speeches for the USA U21 team. read what CocoLoloMomo is saying, he believes the U21 team development should be a 4 years plan instead off a 2 years one

Last edited by Astragoth at 9/9/2009 8:01:24 AM