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Just like some skills - passing is a good example - it´s not only a physical ability (thus displayed in the skills), but also a mental ability needed to run certain things. A good example is my Shooting Guard Nenad Lucic - he´s a very solid Guard for my level of gaming, but there´s some offenses where he simply fails to make the right decisions.

It actually does not require a science degree to understand why your player is unable to run some offences and takes some awkward shots. Every time you have used this player on PG or SG position, your offencive flow suffers. I'm guessing your player has high driving and JS, while lacking seriously in passing. He has not managed, to outpass both of your big men spots, in any game this season. Perhaps he makes better decisions when he gains some experience, but it seems, his scoring abilitys are too high compared to his passing abilitys and even a bad shot, while being smothered by defenders, seems a valid option for him (instead of creating a turnover).

That doenst explain his tendency to go to the basket in patient (which his relally what I don´t understand). His passing is okay, but for sure not great compared to his shooting. His IS is extremely low compared to his outside shooting. So even IF his passing is bad, he should still pass before he tries the layup, wouldnt you agree?

Still, in some offenses (and only then) he´s going to the basket play by play by play only to miss and miss and miss.

I can see him racking up pointless midrange jumpers all game long, as this is wahat his skills suggest, but given his skills there´s absolutely no reason he keeps going to the rim.

And it´s not ilke the shot clock is winding down all the time, there´s plenty attempts with like 10 seconds left (and other players around who should dominate their matchup alot more than he does)

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 8/23/2011 4:12:07 PM

That's because he can't pass so making a shot is a better choice for him than risking to lose the ball. If his experience is low, it doesn't help.
He uses his driving skill for layups, not much his IS.

Well, that´s not true, he CAN pass, alot better than IS.

If he´s using his driving for the layup, there´s not much need he´s going for 3-20 all the time

Your player tries what he thinks is best. Experience helps him not making mistakes in taking a decision on what to do.
If he misses so many layups, it's because he can't find anything better to do most of the time. So no, he can't pass, not well enough for your opponents defence. It's not only his own ability but your team's ability too.

Honestly, i´m talking about Lucic in a Patient Offense, which is simply not working at all. And to some degree you have to trust me that there would be other options with a higher possibility of conversion than him going for a layup, even in todays game. But nevertheless, this is to no degree a discussion abuot my player, mind going back on topic? This is not me whining Lucic can´t do it (or at least it wasn´t before you kept posting your theories), and I don´t want it to start beeing it either.

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 8/23/2011 4:36:59 PM

What you do not seem to understand is, that he is unable to find those opportunitys with his passing. You team is not actually a top dog in your league. There could be Dwight Howard wide open under the basket, with Muggsy Bogues guarding him, he just can't make that pass.
What you are rooting here is: give my SG inside offence bonus, where his passing skill and experience does not matter, because he has read books about this offence and is really suited for it from birth. Train the skills needed to pass inside and he will drive less and will take less ill advised shots.

Edit: about the patient offence. You were playing with let them play and as an aggressive player he was in foul trouble most of the game, thus his ratings were affected. He still had hit 9-18 (4-6 3pointers) at half time. Where is the problem? Eventually he ended up with 14-35 (40%) while shooting 6-12 beyond the arc. 7-10 FT-s. I don't know about his stamina value, but if you force him to play the entire game and think that his stats are bad, then??? What are good stats?

Last edited by Kukoc at 8/23/2011 5:18:57 PM

Mind going back to the topic?

And -no- I was not playing with "let them play". Any more in-depth analysis?

We are on topic, we are trying to explain how skills determine players actions in games and how this suggestion adds nothing to the game.
You had 2 fouls on him after 7 mins and 3 fouls on him at 13 min mark. Thats more than 16 mins in foul trouble.
We can prolly stop discussing this now and let the thread die.

This is about the possibility of "adding" a "preferred offense" skill, and not about a single game of Nenad Lucic. I have multiple games with him playing different positions in Patient offense, some working fine, some not, and I´ve seen less talented players excel in this offense against stronger competition. While you´re focusing on him in a game where he played 48 minutes on PG for training reasons, I do have my resasons (with a wider basis than you might think) to believe that he´s a guy that - although having not too shabby skills for this offense type - cannot "shine" in this offense because he´s making bad decisions.

Now i seriously doubt that you have deep enough insight into him, my team, my opponents and the engine, to tell me, that "giving him 2 more levels of passing" will cure it all. I´m to some degree sick of people coming out all the time and telling other people "hey, that´s obvious, just because you lack this and that", not because I think they are completely wrong, just because I think people are focusing so much on DETAIL that they forget to see the whole.

So let´s say Lucic has a "favourite" offense of let´s say Motion, which gives him ... let´s just say - .15 gameshape boost when playing Motion - how does his current inability to play Patient Offense be whatever reason is "on Topic" about the proposal of that skill?

I understand what you mean, you are making an example. But what I am saying is that if you are playing RnG, you should have players on your team that can run that offense pretty well. I am not suggesting a physical skill/ ability to run it, it more deals with player mental skill and ability to run it and that is where the "bonus ability" ties in. What I meant with my quote is that the offense and the player are both out of place.