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Today, in my Cup game (29039578) I had my substitute SG, Iliev (6916789) play 1 minute at C position while both of my C's (starter, Grahovac (8186240) and substitute, Ninkovic (13516686)) sat on the bench.

Surely 1 minute out of 48 does not seem like a big deal here, but the point is that such substitutes makes no sense. If I set my lineup certain way, I expect those orders to be followed. Not only that this mess my training minutes, but it also looks utterly ugly on the floor as there is absolutely no logic behind playing someone like Iliev at C position. Neither he is competent to play at that position nor any of my assigned C's was injured or in foul trouble so that such substitution can be justified. And lastly, and most importantly, I guess, he was NOT assigned to play there to begin with. On the other end, he plays only 30 seconds at the SG position where he was originally assigned thus he does not get his 48 training minutes for this week. Similarly, my substitute C does not get his minutes, either :c

I understand that there is nothing you can do about it at this point, but I beg you to stop this travesty from happening in the future. Thank you.

P.S.
Just for the record, I played Depth Chart until 4th Q. and I know that, in such circumstance, coach is allowed to make certain substitutions on his own in the last quarter of the game, BUT before someone takes that as an excuse for this ridiculous substitute today, let me repeat myself and say it out loud once again, there was no logic whatsoever behind benching my C's and playing at their position someone who was assigned as substitute SG. No logic. Period.

there is absolutely no logic behind playing someone like Iliev at C position

Sure there is. If your team needs a three-pointer to get back in the game, your coach will put as many three-point shooters as he can on he floor: 4, sometimes even 5.

Don't expect this to change in the future.

I'm sorry, but your explanation does not apply to my game. I was already in the lead and in no need of such substitute. If you have reviewed the game before posting, you would know that, but I guess, it is easier to justify something than fix it.

it is easier to justify something than fix it.

Most definitely true, especially when you're not the person doing the fixing :)

On that, we agree, but seriously now, someone should take a closer look at this. Sarcastic comments are of no help. I took my time to report the problem and I expect it to be taken seriously. I don't think I'm asking for too much.

I checked your game. What exactly are you pissed with? That you did not manage to get 48 minutes for your sub C? To me subbing the SF in for your C spot made sence. I watched your game ending and pbp. At 1:22 left you were leading with 7 points and 1 FT to shoot. With 1:22 left and leading with 7 you are by no means won yet. What usually happens in those situations? The opponent is starting to rack up those 3-s to cut the lead. What you need in those cases? Better outside defence. What else could brought up the substitution (and remember I do not know your player skills)?, stamina for starting C, better FT, ball handling, passing, od than your sub C. So the coach tryes to win the game and makes the best decisions for your team at that specific time. At 00:39 the walkover rule kicks in as you have gotten the lead to 11 points. So he uses your sub pattern to protect the starters. Easy.
I hope this will never change, as the coaches job is to win games, not manage minutes and lose the game.

Last edited by Kukoc at 11/20/2010 7:18:21 AM

First of all, I'm not pissed; I'm merely reporting what I believe should be recognized as an problem, but I must say that I'm growing more and more annoyed with the way my complain is being treated here.
I thank you for taking your time to actually review the game, but similarly like GM-kozlodoev, you generalize things and you neglect all of my arguments.
You said it yourself that you don't know my player skills yet you're so easy at making conclusion that I'm complaining without a reason and that substitution over which I complain, in fact, makes sense. I think that is the major fallacy right there. I don't feel obligated to reveal his skills, but I'll say that, ironically enough, he is rather poor at every single skill you mentioned, and if you could actually see them, you would see how weak your argument was, but of course, that is the problem with generalizing things.
In regards to your other arguments, that substitution made NO IMPACT on the game other than messing my minutes and creating this whole controversy. The outcome of the game would be just as same if the engine have obeyed my orders, so your argument that "coach's job is to win games, not manage minutes" is completely out of place.
And please, let's stop justifying things like this as if the game were perfect and let's try to improve it instead. Luckily, no major damage was done today, but who knows what might happen tomorrow if we continue to ignore the problem.

So you are saying that (6916789) has crappier OD,PA,HN,FT than (13516686). Why is he listed as SF then?
I could even throw in GS and Exp stats, but why bother. From the team stats I can see that the forementioned player is shooting FT's at 90,9% (92,9% in league games), while the sub C is sitting at 40% (0% in league games). Seems like an easy choise there.

NO, I'm NOT saying that Iliev has "crappier" outside skills than Ninkovic; I'm saying that Iliev outside skills DO NOT speak in favor of your argument, so please stop misinterpreting my words just so you can prove your point.

And in response to your question "why is he listed as SF then?", what does that have to do with anything? He is listed as SF because of his jump shot. Again, you're trying to prove point where is no point.

If he has better outside skills then everything I wrote in (26712.324) stands. + he seems to be a good FT shooter. What else do you need. Iliev was the best option to that C spot at that moment in game. It actually does not matter what the coach subbed him in for. Was it the good FT % or better (yes better than the sub C's, not some skill level you would prefer) outside defence, passing or handling.
There is absolutely nothing illogical in that sub pattern. Especially this part explains the behaviour

At 1:22 left you were leading with 7 points and 1 FT to shoot. With 1:22 left and leading with 7 you are by no means won yet. What usually happens in those situations? The opponent is starting to rack up those 3-s to cut the lead and will put you on the line.

The best option to that C spot at the moment in game? I'm sorry, but you apparently don't know what you're talking about; you're just blindly trying to defend your points which is, I must say, rather sad. Iliev was most definitely NOT "the best option to that C spot at the moment in game" and I'll tell you why.
Assuming that that substitution was indeed a necessity, which I disagree and I'll explain one more time why is that later on, then why use my substitute SG and not my substitute SF in that game, Preseren (9683094), who is BY FAR more complete player than Iliev? In fact, even my substitute PF in that game, Vujicic (12098175), has better OD,PA,and HN than Iliev. Why don't use him? Wouldn't that substitution make more sense? Or why don't use my third SF/PF option in that same game, Ðurovski (10919257)? He also has better outside skills than Iliev, not counting jump shot and jump range. Either one of those substitutions would make more sense than the one with Iliev, but no, although you have no real insight into skills of my players, you're absolutely positive that "Iliev was the best option to that C spot at the moment in game" and that there was nothing irrational with game engine's decision. I mean, seriously, man, let's talk some sense here.

Now, if we can agree that Iliev was not the best possible solution at C's position at that particular moment in the game, which he was most definitely not, and I sincerely hope that you realize that now, then the next logical step would be, of course, to assume that the substitution itself was unnecessary and therefore just as irrational.
I mean, even if we assume that neither my starting center, Grahovac (8186240), nor his assigned substitution, Ninkovic (13516686), were not competent to close the game, which is not true, I still had AT LEAST 3 other players with better outside skills than Iliev sitting on the bench. And may I also remind you one more time that Iliev playing that 1 minute at C position made NO IMPACT whatsoever on the game and its outcome? Proof of that is not only his statistic, which you love so much, for that 1 minute of his playing time, but also the fact that roughly ONLY 30 seconds after that substitution, the game rolled into "walkover mode." I mean, do you seriously believe that in time frame of 30 seconds game can go from extreme of alert mode to extreme of walkover? I think NOT, but yea, thank you for being logical and in no way biased on this matter.

And just so you and the rest of BB-staff know, I didn't came here to whine. This is not the first time things like this happen; it's just that this time I decided to take an action hoping that it will somehow contribute to further development of the game, but apparently it was too naive of me to believe that someone here would actually care.