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Yes, if they start Morata, Isco and Asensio, instead of Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema maybe they don't lose the last game.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/26/2017 8:02:27 PM

Hahaha
Was the same question ten years ago with Robinho and others before. Is better Robinho or Messi? is better ? or Messi
Allways Messi. Not discursion.

F group, last game vs Hungary. He scored 2 goals to tie the match and qualify Portugal.
1/2 Final, he opened the score vs. Welsh winning the eliminatory.

Re-read the names dude. Freaking Hungary and Wales. WALES!!!

It's like hailing LeBron James for leading the troops in the sweep against the Pistons last season. Really? Hungary and Wales...

So what is wrong with Hungary and Wales? They did same or better than England, so they were atleast equally strong team as England. Dude, England got eliminated by Iceland! But I bet you still laugh when you hear that people play football in Iceland too.

We can also say that Argentina has strongest team on paper in South America... I mean Brazil was never so weak like now. Yet Messi&Co didnt win anything.

Like I said, I prefer Messi, but you trying to make Ronaldo achievements count less is pathetic.

And about ballon d'or discussion. Messi got lucky in 2010... They changed rules that year and he won instead Sneijder (who was by far best player in 2010 by my opinion). https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-brooks-peck/sneijder... Actually Messi would finish 4th that year. Great job FIFA.

EDIT: One more thing... Stop comparing football and basketball... In basketball one player like Lebron can carry team to victory. Yet in football you need entire team to win. Only reason why Messi/CR didnt win more championships with their countries - they have weak links in their national teams and unlike in basketball... One player cant do everything.
Another advantage in Messi career... He played with Xavi and Iniesta (two players that carried Spain national team for six years), two top midfielders that dont score goals, but rather assist.

Well atleast one thing you are right. Messi will go in history as greatest player ever.

Last edited by nebi at 4/27/2017 5:24:03 AM

When Barca system is not applied he has been far away from the player we are used to see, even during the NT runs. Curious to see him under Sampaoli, tactic freak/genius, on the NT.

He has more goals than Maradona and Batistuta for Argentina, 2 guys you should know very well and his scoring average for Argentina is about the same as Ronaldo's for Portugal, except playing much farther from the goal.

Denying the impact of Cristiano on the NT is even more pathetic. He has lead a team less talented than their best generation one (Fico, Rui Costa, Couto, Simao etc) to same or better results, being decisive in almost all the stages.

Greece won a European title...Portugal without Ronaldo won the final. Most teams can win a single game and you'd expect a top tier team like Portugal to beat teams like Iceland or Austria or Hungary. It's a bit like expecting England to go nowhere.

What y'all forget is that WITH Ronaldo, Portugal nearly went out in the group stage and qualified due to repechage as third (an aberration) after failing to finish in the first two places in the easiest group of the tournament, which featured football superpowers such as:
- Iceland (had 0 wins in the history of the Euro championship)
- Austria (had 0 wins in the history of the Euro championship)
- Hungary (had 1 win in the history of the competition)

The only game they played against a top team they didn't have Ronaldo and they won. It's that simple.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/27/2017 8:45:25 AM

History? Really? Do you even think before you write stuff?
Spain had 0 titles before 2008... So they were probably shit before that. And shame on every team that lost vs them.
Croatia has 0 titles. So they must still be shit. Doesnt matter they have Rakitic, Modric, Kovacic, Mandzukic,...

England has titles... Yet, they are one NT that keep disappointing. Shame on them they keep losing...

Lets say titles matter as you say... But I bet you will also say... Real Madrid won 5 times when it didnt matter. Hypocrite? Dont twist reality as it suits you.

When match starts, past doesnt matter. Every generation is writing new history. You dont see Barca players afraid when they play vs Real Madrid just because Real had best team in 60's.

EDIT: Also, I cant believe you keep underestimating teams that went further than England on Euro 2016. As like every small country is shit. Like size matters? Too bad China doesnt have n1 NT on world.

Last edited by nebi at 4/27/2017 9:14:32 AM

Like I said, I prefer Messi, but you trying to make Ronaldo achievements count less is pathetic.

They count the same, but they are also fewer....

Another advantage in Messi career... He played with Xavi and Iniesta (two players that carried Spain national team for six years), two top midfielders that dont score goals, but rather assist.

yeah that would be funny if it was remotely true...

Games/Assists/Goals (Source espnfc)
2006/07
Xavi 49/5/7
Iniesta 45/4/9
Messi 37/3/20

2007/08
Xavi 63/9/12
Iniesta 52/5/6
Messi 52/15/28

2008/09
Xavi 73/34/16
Iniesta 56/16/9
Messi 54/18/42

2009/10
Xavi 57/19/6
Iniesta 34/7/1
Messi 58/11/49

2010/11
Xavi 57/14/5
Iniesta 61/12/12
Messi 55/22/51

2011/12
Xavi 56/12/16
Iniesta 49/11/9
Messi 70/27/77

2012/13
Xavi 54/15/12
Iniesta 55/22/7
Messi 59/18/75

2013/14
Xavi 51/5/5
Iniesta 53/12/4
Messi 50/13/46

Totals over that period when they were all starting regularly for Barcelona:
Xavi: 460 games, 113 assists (0.246 average), 79 goals
Iniesta: 405 games, 89 assists (0.220 average), 57 goals
Messi: 435 games, 127 assists (0.292 average), 388 goals

I rest my case on who carried whom. Even without considering that Messi scored 3x what the other 2 combined for, just looking at the assist numbers should be fairly obvious.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/27/2017 9:39:53 AM

History? Really? Do you even think before you write stuff?
Spain had 0 titles before 2008

Man you're also very ignorant. Spain had already won the Euros in '64, everybody knows that.

Lets say titles matter as you say... But I bet you will also say... Real Madrid won 5 times when it didnt matter. Hypocrite? Dont twist reality as it suits you.

lol they were literally the first 5 editions of the competition...

Do you really want to argue that the first 5 editions were as competitive as the editions in the last 25 years when football really became global and exponentially more popular?

EDIT: Also, I cant believe you keep underestimating teams that went further than England on Euro 2016. As like every small country is shit. Like size matters? Too bad China doesnt have n1 NT on world.

Tradition and results matter. That's why England sucks. Italy and Germany are the best nations in european football and then Spain. The last Euros with that idiotic formula and an extra round was just dumb and they managed to put France, Germany, Spain and Italy all on the same side and 3 of them in the same quarterfinal.

It's like the NBA basing playoffs' seeding on 1 game in the RS and then you have WCSF: GSW-SAS, HOU-UTA in one bracket and then POR-OKC, LAC-MEM in the other!

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/27/2017 9:40:47 AM

You take everything out of context? Why are you so desperate? Its getting pathetic already.

Like I said, I prefer Messi, but you trying to make Ronaldo achievements count less is pathetic.

They count the same, but they are also fewer....

Ronaldo won with NT, so he has more titles with NT than Messi. Cant say fewer. You just took what I wrote out of context.

Another advantage in Messi career... He played with Xavi and Iniesta (two players that carried Spain national team for six years), two top midfielders that dont score goals, but rather assist.

yeah that would be funny if it was remotely true...

Totals over that period when they were all starting regularly for Barcelona:
Xavi: 460 games, 113 assists (0.246 average), 79 goals
Iniesta: 405 games, 89 assists (0.220 average), 57 goals
Messi: 435 games, 127 assists (0.292 average), 388 goals

I rest my case on who carried whom. Even without considering that Messi scored 3x what the other 2 combined for, just looking at the assist numbers should be fairly obvious.

I said Xavi and Iniesta carried Spain NT... Not Barcelona. They were key pieces in Barca team, but ofcourse Messi was most important player... But you just take random stuff out of context as it suits you.

I am out of this debate. You proved numeros times you mix basketball and football and you bend facts as they suit you.

EDIT: By your logic Messi should have same amount of CL thropies as Ronaldo. Just because he didnt play in 2006 final. Hes contribution before final doesnt matter. What a joke.

Last edited by nebi at 4/27/2017 10:17:40 AM