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I think that the next couple of seasons could see a remarkable increase of teams tanking.
Managers have money (as you do) but can't spend them because of the absurd prices.

So through tanking and making lots of money, they'll expect the prices to go down ? If more teams have more money, I would bet on prices going higher.

Although, if they tank and train lots of high quality players, they won't need to buy as many when they promote back up again. And, they could sell those highly trained players for a fortune if they wish to.

Well it makes perfect sense that if demand reduces (as he's saying) due to people tanking, prices go up, doesn't it? I wonder where I can also learn such creative macroeconomics?

Even Trainerman seems to have (finally) grasped is that it's not the money generated in the economy per se that drives the prices (savings anyone????), but actual supply and demand dynamics...which are clearly affected by other factors (eg expectations of what the supply will be in the future) and not just disposable income.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 9/30/2015 6:08:32 PM

I think that the next couple of seasons could see a remarkable increase of teams tanking.
Managers have money (as you do) but can't spend them because of the absurd prices.

So through tanking and making lots of money, they'll expect the prices to go down ? If more teams have more money, I would bet on prices going higher.

They do not expect the prices go down.
They just can't buy any decent player for any decent price.
And surely more money means more inflation.
It's a death spiral because of decreasing teams, decreasing trained players. The only way, right now, is to save FA as more as possible.
I hope that who manages the game understand this.

hear hear, this is exactly how bb is dying a slow death.

I think that the next couple of seasons could see a remarkable increase of teams tanking.
Managers have money (as you do) but can't spend them because of the absurd prices.

So through tanking and making lots of money, they'll expect the prices to go down ? If more teams have more money, I would bet on prices going higher.

They do not expect the prices go down.
They just can't buy any decent player for any decent price.
And surely more money means more inflation.
It's a death spiral because of decreasing teams, decreasing trained players. The only way, right now, is to save FA as more as possible.
I hope that who manages the game understand this.

hear hear, this is exactly how bb is dying a slow death.

I really doubt this is the reason. The user base had already fallen quite a ways before the player prices started to inflate a couple seasons ago.

Last edited by Iguanadon Joe at 9/30/2015 9:09:57 PM

This is something I have been talking about off and on for several real world years but still none seem to get it, especially Marin.

Hey keep trying to persuade people they should play the game logically and rationally, the same way you play and that Marin thinks they should, it just shows how apart you two guys are on this issue. It's all perfectly logical, ASSUMING that people behave rationally and are playing the way they should (eg to accumulate as many resources as they can). Once you remove the rationality assumption, the whole reasoning collapses.

I simply noted that you recently said that things are not working that way they should...so it looked like you finally had a reality check somehow and realised that you (and Marin) were wildly incorrect in your assumptions since the results are clearly not what you thought they would be. Marin seems to have had a similar epiphany since the number of FAs mysteriously ballooned recently.

You know, the only actual argument you could make to support the idea that inflation is caused by too much income (as you insisted for months) is in relative terms and not absolute as you repeatedly put it. It's not the cash people make on average that it's relevant here, it's whether teams now earn more cash than they used to, otherwise it's common sense to conclude that the users have the same disposable income they had in the past and that something else has a larger impact on prices (eg supply of players on the market).

Last night a free agent 30 y/o guard with 127 skill points

I'd love to see that, I looked yesterday for OD>18 PA>14 Price<790k and I saw no 30yo with 127 TSP. I think this is the usual Trainerman's personal number inflation. You are a serial offender: when we're lucky you round up, when we're not you make them up. In any case, Marin's prototypical FA (the ones he deemed worth saving in the last few seasons) had 20 DR and 20 HA, with decent to mediocre (10s-12s) other skills. I doubt you think all skills are worth the same, so please spare us the farce that would ensue is we start discussing about this. Post the skills and the reasons why you didn't buy him if it was such a great bargain.

Its all about the time of day. Less than 200 users online most of the time now. Right day of week the same player that sold for 20k might sell for 500k, literally. With price FLUCTUATION comes price instability and speculation madness LOL

Urgh I thought you repeatedly stated that we should all build our arenas because making money from players is SO00oo hard! :? Ah yeah that was at the time when you also refused to think in terms of team overall value and you only wanted to look at $ per week...

You are no expert at anything, and don't try to drop my name like I understood something you figured out. Never happened lemonhead.

You keep teaching basketball to girls and I will keep doing my job. I don't need to prove anything to anybody (you included). Not about basketball and even less about economics or finance!

On a second thought, the usual page long partially inconsequential rant makes me doubt you have actually understood the basic fallacies in your reasoning...


Last edited by Lemonshine at 10/1/2015 7:50:04 AM

The guy DID NOT have 18 OD. Nor did he have 14 PA. He was more of an SF build. Sold around 4 am Japan time.

Of course he didn't, you box of rocks, I was making an example that 127 TSP players with the right skills are not in that price bracket. I'm ready to bet real money that:
a) the guy you saw either did not have 127 TSP or did not sell for 800k or he wasn't 30yo
b) if he close to 127, he had extreme DR and HA, way beyond any other skill
This is the perfect chance to show me and put me in my place.

Note that he's already turned from a "guard" into a "more of a SF build", lol. How's that for quoting? Precise enough? See it's not me taking it out of context, you said guard, I was looking for guards, I told you what I was looking for (while looking for a good player) and that there was no 127 TSP player of that kind. I ask you to tell us his skills, but instead you say he was a SF....chapeau. (y)

Actually you wrote this in another thread at the same time, keep it together mate:

A 160k salary player sold for 800k yesterday (127 TSP) under 33. FA

So at least a) was correct...shall we look into b)?

I would appreciate if going forward you leave any mention of me out of any post you make. Don:t try to make a strawman out of me.

Ah poor thing, I thought you would apply the same rules to yourself than you apply to everyone else :`-(...I will be the bigger person and go retrieve what you wrote and quote you. It's just a pain with the kind of posts you write, full of random stuff that is not even pertinent to the point you are trying to make.

You:ll never achieve anything meaningful in this game, talking to you is a complete waste of time.

lolol, before someone comes in and says that this is another case of the pot calling the kettle black (which may well be true), I admit that all those BB titles and that veneration from the Japanese and American communities warrant my respect for you and your achievements present, past and future XD oh wait, aren't you tanking all over the place??? Let's say your achievements past and future only!

Last edited by Lemonshine at 10/1/2015 8:41:52 AM

It's a death spiral because of decreasing teams, decreasing trained players. The only way, right now, is to save FA as more as possible.

Or just maybe instead of trying to make the solution be dependent on people leaving the game (since that is, after all, where FAs come from), maybe instead increasing the supply of trained/trainable/playable players through other methods might actually be a better way.

Of course, whether that happens is a story with its own tale to be told. But if we ever reach a point where the only solution to problems that are causing people to leave require people to leave, the game's lost.

But if we ever reach a point where the only solution to problems that are causing people to leave require people to leave, the game's lost.

Definitely a classic, but I'll wait for the greatest hits compilation before spending my money.