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Let's explain it again, and make it more clear.

Currently, it seems that the (current) TPE takes the two parameters they are defining (Potential, and best skill), in addition to age, and make a search upon that, which brings irrelevant data.

Why is it irrelevant data?
Because data on a 25 YO SF with superstar potential that has prolific JS and pitiful skill on all others aspects, should not be taken when comparing for a purchase of a player who his "other skills" (except being a 25yo SF with superstar potential and prolific JS) are all prominent. It has no value, and it just mislead the buyer.

TLH on the other hand, gives the user the possibility to learn the market, and give old and new user the same starting point.
An old user, is more familiar with market variance on current system.

It´s you who doesnt understand Wallys Point, not vice versa. Nice that you keep explaining things.

Just like Wally and some others with a deep understanding for the game and programming work tried to point out:

we need a more precise and maybe more transparent and maybe even a customizable TPE. we don´t need a huge database for virtually nothing but nintendo reasons.

What does your stubborness about that point lead to? If we had such a TPE, what use would there be for your suggestion anymore? What extra benefit would anybody gain from your version of the History TL after the TPE had beefed up the discribed way?

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 2/18/2012 5:08:04 PM

we need a more precise and maybe more transparent and maybe even a customizable TPE. we don´t need a huge database for virtually nothing but nintendo reasons.

Now I understand... We (you and...?) need a TPE that will keep being not relevant like the current TPE.

We shouldn't use (did I understand your deep-understanding on the game this time?) a TLH who will:
1) Give a data that will be precise by definition.

2) Will eliminate the biased advantage between old and new ones, as the old ones are more familiar with players' value, again by definition.

And I've also understand (again, am I right this time?) that TLH will make it a nintendo game, because then users (I wonder who is on that list) could not take an advantage, on the lack of knowledge of other users, so easily as it is today.

2) is wrong by definition. old teams think in old terms and are more often than not FAR OFF the current value on the TL.

And still you failed to answer the question.

With a new TPE in effect, what would be the main advantage of your TLH? Or ANY advantage of your TLH justifying the enormous data required.

Last edited by LA-seelenjaeger at 2/18/2012 5:58:14 PM

Currently, it seems that the (current) TPE takes the two parameters they are defining (Potential, and best skill), in addition to age, and make a search upon that, which brings irrelevant data.

You make the mistake of assuming that only what we see is considered in the TPE comparison. That could of course be the case, but there is no reason to approach the issue based on that assumption only. It is actually fairly unlikely - bordering impossible - that only one skill is considered. Why? Because we get such a large number of "no recent similar transfer" TPEs for fairly common player types. Just look at your own roster, I'm pretty sure you can find examples. If only one skill (and age and potential) are used in the search, no TPE should not be a very common occurrence. I think the TPEs are generally pretty good. (Even then, I would prefer knowing the comparison criteria a little better.) There are obviously many extreme cases where they fail. If one looks at only those problem cases, one fails to understand the root of the problem.

Currently, it seems that the (current) TPE takes the two parameters they are defining (Potential, and best skill), in addition to age, and make a search upon that, which brings irrelevant data.

You make the mistake of assuming that only what we see is considered in the TPE comparison. That could of course be the case, but there is no reason to approach the issue based on that assumption only. It is actually fairly unlikely - bordering impossible - that only one skill is considered. Why? Because we get such a large number of "no recent similar transfer" TPEs for fairly common player types. Just look at your own roster, I'm pretty sure you can find examples. If only one skill (and age and potential) are used in the search, no TPE should not be a very common occurrence. I think the TPEs are generally pretty good. (Even then, I would prefer knowing the comparison criteria a little better.) There are obviously many extreme cases where they fail. If one looks at only those problem cases, one fails to understand the root of the problem.

1) I wrote that it seems that the TPE is using only those criterias.

2) In any case, when the criteria is not known, the information is worth less.

3) I guess that they are also giving information upon data from the recent time. Why not letting the user define this period of time.

4) Generally, I don't see any advantage of improving the TPE over the TLH.
The TLH gives the user the ability to understand market value, and the user will not depend on unknown factors that are part of the TPE (or the Enhanced-TPE) mechanism.

As you seem unable to undestand the TPE proposal, let me explain it to you once more:

3) and 4) are to some degree already part of the enhanced TPE proposal.

1) I wrote that it seems that the TPE is using only those criterias.

And I am simply answering that it actually does not seem so. It is the input information that is explicitly given. The output i.e. the actual TPEs, however, suggest that the process is more refined than that.

4) Generally, I don't see any advantage of improving the TPE over the TLH.

A major advantage is that the TPE system framework as well as the TL search functionality already exist. It is therefore likely much more straightforward to implement it that way. But, whatever.

1) I wrote that it seems that the TPE is using only those criterias.

And I am simply answering that it actually does not seem so. It is the input information that is explicitly given. The output i.e. the actual TPEs, however, suggest that the process is more refined than that.

There is no way to define what the current TPE is upon.
One can guess that there is a relation between the information they give about the player (single skill and potential) to the search they perform.
As written, I guess that they are performing it on a very small DB (AKA very recent time), and this is why you are very often get this "no information" TPE.

Anyhow, till now, I did not read a single explanation why a new TPE will be better than a TLH.
The claim that the TLH will be harder to implement, is something that cannot be calculated, as we do not know the code.
Not to mention that a TLH is similar to TL, with the difference of DB used and information that needs to be hidden.

There is no way to define what the current TPE is upon.

There is no way to know how it works exactly. It is not necessary. There are pretty decent indications to have a general understanding of it, which is more than sufficient to discuss the feature. I have provided such discussion in previous messages.

Anyhow, till now, I did not read a single explanation why a new TPE will be better than a TLH.

And why is a "TLH" better than a "TPE" or any other TLA? Have we not been discussing ways to enhance the usefulness of a functionality to provide price information of past transfers? Why does it matter how we call it?

It is good to note that the TPE tool with translations to dozens of languages is available, and it should be possible to integrate transfer search functionality to it (this is also existing code). You have described the TLH feature as a separate page ((210662.1): "there should be a TLH, where one can verify what is a fair price for a player" and "[n]o reason not to have this TLH page"). Is this not pretty much the only difference to existing TPE with a user-controlled search feature? I don't understand why to go that route, when the TPE information we are currently provided is already available right where it is needed the most, i.e. the player page. Just add the search functionality there. The search can happen on a separate page for all I care and let's call that page TLH if you like. The point is that the current TPE is actually quite useful in many cases, an enhanced feature even more so. There is no need to remove it altogether, just to improve it.

Last edited by GM-WallyOop at 2/19/2012 10:14:05 AM

Let's go deeper to the TPE enhancement suggestion (that if there was a GM reading this should have not been discussed on a thread that is nothing about that....

1) Let's say one can choose ALL skills he want to compare, so the comparison will be full (what can easily can be achieved using the TLH).

2) Let's say that the price range will be between close values (which can't be true on the current market due to the system we have today).

3) Let's say that it has all that, and let's say that you can also differentiate between nationalities.

As it will not have that, and in addition, it could not, by definition, using the TPE, get information about the time each deal had been made, it is inferior to the TLH suggestion, and hence less preferred.

What is interesting for me to hear, is why one will try to support a TPE suggestion when all of that are proving the added value of the TLH suggestion.
Not only that, supporting one, and finding the other a bad suggestion that would do harm (harm to whom...).
I know what I believe the reason is...