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Highest Salary U21?

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From: Ori

This Post:
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299745.35 in reply to 299745.34
Date: 5/15/2019 2:16:01 PM
Hapoel Katamon
II.4
Overall Posts Rated:
7676
Second Team:
Jerusalem Farmers
True, it's only 107k salary at 21yo, 35k par value (could be more actually) for the trainer and 15k for the facilities. I refuse to believe anyone would train without the extra crosstraining pops, that would be really really bad especially for farms, who will use those facilities forever. That's 157k/week and 157*14=$2.2m. I guess those 300k/season change everything and make it economically viable.

I assume you accept that the other dude training the 24yo is paying 180k minimum.

Nobody ever mentioned lvl 7 trainers, but as for the advice you like to give new Israeli managers you seem to make other stuff up.

Now you 7 brilliant minds of BB: you pay 2.2m in ONE season and you won't sell such a player for 2.5m as demonstrated by 2 of the 3 players I mentioned above going unsold. The last is up for 2m and has no bids, so not even that will do. As suspected, it seems even the last piece of misinformation you have been spreading is getting exposed.

I have a suggestion: keep posting in that weird language of yours, maybe nobody will be able to tell what's true and what's logical if you do that.


That's all true if you ignore the fact that the first couple of seasons the salary would be waaaayyyy lower. so the calculation for the first season would (4k salary + 35k par+20k yt)*12, that's around 700k and the next 2 season would be closer to that than your calculation which is only true for the 4th season of training. pair that with 2 more trainers and you can make a nice profit. Is it the best you can do? no. But like I wrote before it's about the having fun and some people enjoy training U21 players.

Edit: forgot to mention, Alon specifically said there were no cross training facilities, so what you believe doesn't matter, there's just the truth.

Last edited by Ori at 5/15/2019 2:24:32 PM

This Post:
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299745.37 in reply to 299745.36
Date: 5/16/2019 4:34:25 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
(45276301) 162k salary 1.875M transfer
True monoskilled he has 23 IS high ID and 11 RB. Owner tried to flip this guy for 2.8m yesterday with no luck.

(44943555) 147k salary 2.55M transfer
Mostly primary training with a little 1v1

(45110613) 126k salary 3.3M transfer
Trained a few times out of position and substantial 1v1.

(45108022) 121k salary 2.25M transfer
Lot of 1v1 training

(45490492) 114k salary 1.8M transfer
Lot of 1v1 training

(44945111) 99k salary 2.2M transfer
Very little 1v1 and almost entirely primary training

I'll stop here. Based on the above the only one who sold for over 3 million is the guy who was trained a little out of position in JR and in 1v1. Of course we don't know the initial stats for these players and key secondaries, but the 3.3m guy does not have good PA or OD. Based on the above we can agree this kind of player should sell for 1.8-2.5m in the current market (but the guys who are 100k right now will be over 150k salary at 22 so it stands to reason they should be more like 1.8m than 2.5m like the hungarian guy). Other 22yo guys with 120k+ salary listed for 2m yesterday went unsold, which is another piece of evidence.

For most of these players (the top ones had 80k salary or so at 21yo) the sale price is less than they cost in a single year of salary + training structure as we have already determined.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/16/2019 4:44:46 AM

From: Lemonshine

To: Ori
This Post:
00
299745.38 in reply to 299745.35
Date: 5/16/2019 5:48:05 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
so the calculation for the first season would (4k salary + 35k par+20k yt)*12, that's around 700k and the next 2 season would be closer to that than your calculation which is only true for the 4th season of training. pair that with 2 more trainers and you can make a nice profit.
Except farms can't do that because they can't afford that kind of salary for 3 players in lower divisions (due to smaller weekly economy). Which is when a 'system' may come in handy to redistribute these players to other willing managers when the salary becomes too high.

Is it the best you can do? no.
It's not even close to the best. Training is already not profitable, especially training top end potential players. Wolph is right about this. The best bet to make more profit than trading (even with all the restrictions) is to acquire 6 lvl 8 potential players who can be made into SFs. Do 2 position training for the first 2 seasons, sell 3 and train the others for another 4-5 seasons. All with a lvl 4 trainer. Then sell the 3 you kept around 125 TSP or more. That may make you a profit.

What you are advocating however is something entirely different. You have 3 general outlines:
- train only primaries and cap the player
- train primaries first, make his salary explode to the point you will have to give up building a competitive team and THEN train secondaries like that guy is doing with the 24yo
- make a plan, train secondaries up to the point where you are still guaranteed to hit all your primary targets and THEN train primaries.

You advocate this second, while every reasonable manager without an agenda on BB will tell you: do the latter or mix it. When they are young trainees are bad no matter what position they play, but when they are older and cost more you get to use them at the positions where they are most useful. This, and the fact you pay millions less in salary over the course of a player's life if you do secondaries first and primaries after. ANYONE with a shred of common sense understands this.

What you are advocating goes against both financial and strategic interests of trainers. And yes, OD and PA do matter for big men and PA is very trainable considering it is not affected by height. JS is irrelevant, I'd never train it on a 7'0'' C for salary reasons, in fact a lower initial JS is usually better as you save tens of thousands in salary every week later on. HA/DR are also almost useless on a C, provided you have enough flow to get them the ball. I had a 1 HA/1 DR player in D1 who took a higher amount of dunks and inside shots (and fewer layups).

Edit: forgot to mention, Alon specifically said there were no cross training facilities, so what you believe doesn't matter, there's just the truth.
I'm just saying no gym is also bad. CT on those guys will give you extra pops at 15k extra weekly cost. Consider this: checking the trainers prices I think 'par' for a lvl 6 is well over 80k right now, lvl 5 is well over 40k (may be closer to 50k) and lvl 4 is probably under/around 20k.

By par I mean the true average cost per week of a trainer when spread over the holding period. You can calculate when your average weekly cost starts increasing (it will decrease for many weeks as you amortise the initial fee) and what the average salary is then. That value for most trainers of the same lvl is what I call 'par' cost and this amount should never ever be higher than replacing the trainer for one that can be bought for 1k, assuming you fire the trainer Saturday or Sunday and replace him with another one the following week.

The difference between lvl 4 and 6 trainer is noticeable but not enormous, so you are better off getting the highest possible CT facilities and a lvl 4 trainer than a lvl 6 trainer with no facilities . The training speed is likely to be quite similar, assuming 3 extra CT slots, but it costs half (and you repay the initial investment in 2 seasons). It also works for lvl3 or lvl4+gym vs lvl 5

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/16/2019 6:28:28 AM

This Post:
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299745.40 in reply to 299745.38
Date: 5/16/2019 7:10:25 AM
OP Robotics
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
141141
Second Team:
Simbotics
OK so I don't know how to play the game. Is that what you wanted to see? Can you just lay it off? It becomes an observation for you as it seems. You have about 6 Israeli saying one thing and a guy from the us who agrees and a french guy who gives you solid evidences for high salary 22 yo players being sold for 1.8m+ and even 3m+ and you keep repeating the same nonsense with 0 proof so I see it's not worth keeping this endless pointless discussion

If you think I have no idea what I'm doing that's fine but saying Alon, I and several more people in my community are lying to new managers is just rude and childish from you because it's just not right as you've been told several times already

And please for the love of god if you wanna keep saying the same stuff again don't, just leave it as is

Thanks

Last edited by The Yoav at 5/17/2019 9:18:46 AM

This Post:
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299745.41 in reply to 299745.40
Date: 5/16/2019 7:41:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
players being sold for 1.8m+
You said 3m+. Repeatedly. To which I replied I don't believe that's market price, as the examples clearly show. In fact you guys insisted that 3.6m is a fair price because the 22yo NT player for Macau sold for that much some seasons ago.

Do you agree that on average you will get around 2m (if you can sell the player that is, because yesterday none of the 120k+ salary 22yo sold for that amount).

even 3m+
that specific one was not trained only in primaries, check his history. If he has decent to good HA/DR then he will have higher TSP than primary-only players. I can agree these players may sell for around 2m (although yesterday none of them did). My point is just that 2m may not even cover the cost of training those players in their 21yo season, as we have already clarified.

I and several more people in my community are lying to new managers is just rude
It's not rude, it the truth. You are deceiving new managers and you are making them pay salary to either get a subpar player (lower secondaries that they could have) or pay a lot more salary than they should.

And please for the god if you wanna keep saying the same stuff again don't, just leave it as is
If you admit that training a player to 100k in 3 seasons is a bad idea and hurts the manager financially and strategically and will make him want to quit when he realises he has been duped then yes, I will leave it.

The reality is that you fellas sound like fraudsters, using unsuspecting new managers' to train players for your U21. They think it's good for them for progressing and improving in the game when it is the opposite and the most laughable claim is that THIS actually helps user retention! What happens when these users realise what happened? What happens when they can't improve their team because you actually hamstrung them with high salary players that they have to sell at a financial loss?

Just tell them the truth. Tell them you are asking them to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. The greater good being the interest of you lot to compete in the U21 against much larger nations for your own personal gratification. Then I will drop it. It's up to you.

This Post:
00
299745.42 in reply to 299745.33
Date: 5/16/2019 8:52:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
I have no problem with training monoskilled players per se. I have 2 issues with these folks:
1. This is not the best way financially or strategically to train a player and they insist it is good for new managers.
Primary-only training does not benefit the training team the most. This is why 'farms' do this, these teams are willingly taking a hit for the community, they are teams sacrificing and not competing.
It would be ok if a manager is told: you can train these player(s) for the U21 and we collectively can try to compete against large nations, but it will come at a cost for you, a cost in $$$ paid weekly, a cost for you not being able to afford other players who may allow you to climb the ladder and a cost for you for getting a worse final product than this player could be.
However, the reverse is happening here: they sell this saying it's convenient and efficient for new users and it helps them grow.
2. Even if you go the monoskilled way these are high potential players (MVP or HoF otherwise they will likely cap). It's not a problem if you assign some of these players for the U21 if you are Italy, Spain and the US or China. Lots of managers and lots of high potential trainees. 200 users nations may want build for the NT instead and that kind of training does align with the individual trainer interest and progression.

Let's have an example. This guy is currently on the market
Weekly salary: $ 3,667
Skills: 2/2/4 1/4/7 7/6/6/7 18yo 7'0“ 10 potential

This guy can become a 135-136 TSP player, 19/18/15/11 inside skills with 12 OD, 12 PA and close to 19 ID by the end of his 28yo season (assuming at least a 5 trainer and level 3 gym and assuming .5 sublevels). Would a 135-136 TSP player with 12 OD, 12 PA and those inside skills play for virtually every NT in BB? I thought so. He also would have 26k salary at 22yo whereas if you only train his inside skills he would have 150k. That's 120k salary gap at 22yo, a 90-100k salary gap at 23yo etc etc, until you catch up 3/4 season later: how much more does a monoskilled player cost in salary over his life, even including the extra trainer cost you need to add 90 skills instead of 60?

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/16/2019 9:10:16 AM

This Post:
00
299745.45 in reply to 299745.44
Date: 5/16/2019 3:18:22 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
14901490
(8170434) 584k

(4845180) 616k

(4752399) 649k (this may be the highest ever)

(16739976) 211k at U21


The old thread had 760 comments and some are just links to players...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 5/16/2019 3:23:02 PM

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