BuzzerBeater Forums

Fine. But,

something that benefits us more than something that doesnt.

it doesn't.

This is the argument, and I disagree. The fact that you dont now have a NT player doesnt mean you wont next week, or couldnt. The same is not true of the majority of users.

However, the question you should ask is not how much difference the changes will produce between divisions: in my view, you should ask how quickly can that difference be evened out once you promote?

excellent point. The best team in II should be at least competitive with the bottom half of I. When we start seeing 22-0 II teams go 2-20 consistently when they make it to I, I believe there is a problem. I think some of these changes move the game more in that direction.

he answer, up to now, was "relatively quickly if you play your cards correctly". It is possible that the BB will have to increase the promotion prize if the gap between divisions widens. That's the thing to lobby for if the changes achieve their desired result.

Agreed. However if I began to lobby for alternate changes I would be redirected to another forum. Here we may only discuss. I assume since these changes have allready been decided on that this post is primarily for us to post "I Like", or "I dont like" and why.

1) that promotion must always be a reward (it was getting to the point that a life of victories in Div. II was better long term and short term than a life of mediocrity in Div. I).

It seems these changes will make promotion just temporary down the road. No reward in becoming the worst team by far in any series as far as I see. Not saying you are wrong here, asking for more on this so I can understand better.

2) that there should not be farm teams.

Is this because more 'main' accounts will want to hold onto NT players for the boost instead of shipping them off to farms? Seems minimal remedy at best. Not sure I get this either. (help)

I like the sound of the changes and agree with the majority of posters. I guess the proof will be in the pudding and the current unknowns will naturally be figured out as time goes by.

I just hope that the weekly income I was aiming to achieve via my stadium can also be achieved with the new calculations. The JBBL is getting stronger and I am curious to see the difference that will surely be between our negotiated TV contract and that of countries with larger user bases.

I also hope that the fans interpretation of 'stars' (the players they want to buy jerseys of) is better than the fan survey. I am simply stating that if they only rush to buy jerseys of mono-skilled monsters because of the salaries then i think this would be a shame.

Or,if it is linked to mins on court in their preferred position, I think this would be a shame too. Most of the better players are still receiving training and are still having to be played out of position to receive that. Any changes that cannot yet interpret who are the best players (MVP joke results highlights this perfectly).... will be disappointing in my eyes.

Your point about how to designate star players is a good one. The problem is that there has to be some sort of formula for determining this and whichever method is used there will be people who slide into the designation undeservedly and others who get shunted. Perhaps it should be a combination of nationality, statistics, ratings, and skills. Because if you are training a guy to improve him and playing him out of position and he isn't performing as well as another weaker player, why should he be rewarded because his overall skill numbers are higher? In my mind the formula should be a combination of the four things I mentioned ranked against the other players in the league, by position.

I think that your first two sentences are VERY important to remember for everyone when changes are announced. We have to wait and see what the effects and outcomes will be. When it was mentioned that nationality would be figured into the mix, people went crazy complaining about increased wages for foreigners. That was wrong. So here we are again and we have to learn, as a community, to be a bit less reactionary.

@ all
I also dont understand the fascination with incentive for teams that play players from thier own country. This is an international game, why the subtle segregation?


Makes sense to me;look at Xavi and Iniesta Valdes; they are local heroes at Barcelona.It is pretty difficult to succeed at a top team; let alone one player from local. So if this guy indeed succeed in playing regular furst team. I can imagine people would want that to wear that jersey; aside from the supergreat Messi and Henry..


I can give numerous examples to the opposite. Living in LA I see the impact that Pau Gasol has had on the local fan base. Other than Kobe (for obvious reasons) the #1 jersey sold in LA is Gasol's. Considering the large percentage of spanish speaking people in LA, Gasol has captured many many Angelinos hearts. I hear Gasol on Spanish talk radio alot. If we look at Football look at all of the players playing for other countries. When I watch the English Premier league there are many many players not from England, I dont think it hurts thier revenue or fan base, o good player is a good player. Look at Beckham, playing in Spain, playing in LA, plays all over the place, and everywhere ho goes Beckham jerseys sell like crazy. Sorry, just dont buy it.

Another note; BB did not mention you are getting less from now..Only you will be getting more if indeed you would have a local hero...


Semantics. How is getting more money different from others getting less?

If I may use Supafly Guy card;
nomenclature from FML reputation e.g:
filler
obscure
known
star
local hero
NT star
superstar
world famous

There are different ratings to ones reputation. Depending on the rep you have; will result in the amount of jersey sales.

And if you still think Gasol is a local hero; I rate you higher than this. Meaning and as you clearly stated; it has been embraced by all groups and regions.

E.g. Van Persie; striker star At Arsenal. before he went there; where he is now considered a world famous reputation. The dutch were already regarded him well; especially at his club Feyenoord Rotterdam (local star reputation).

As for the semantics;I meant in the way you are getting for lets say 100 today and next season you would get the same 100. While your opponent might get 110 because of the local hero. And the other rival might get 120 because of superstar and local hero.

1. I agree to Supafly to see how it would be determined local heroes. mono skilled monsters should not be considered as one.
2. I am glad that BB would indicate what level a stadium will be capped. I would go along with kozlodoev to say around the 30-35K.
Every season I increased the stadium in order to cover the salary inflation. Understandably some clubs have gone through the roof with their contsructions; so it is a good point taken by BB that its gonna be halted.
3.I do hope that clubs like Iran; Thailand; Nippon wont get "punished" of this rule. The league is not large and amount of superheroes would not be great. But I get the message that BB-Charles would want them to train local heroes in order to compensate the loss of this new implementation. Still they would be on the losing end; but I understand there rules wont bring ALL winners here. Tottally agree that it was necessary to implement the changes as it is.

I think this discussion is helping me clarify my view to myself so I'll keep going with one more round, no hostility intended at this point.

Me as well, and I appreciate your insights and discussion points. I am not just posting to talk, I am trying to learn.

Re (iii): I don't see how this is a problem with the changes. The changes ensure difference between divisions. They do not address how quickly you can make up that difference. Provided the BB monitor this, I am fine.

I have read in other posts, and mostly from other large countries like Italy, that if you get demoted from I good luck coming back up. I believe before these changes there is allready a gap forming. This game is still relatively new, and the small trends we see now will only amplify in the future. More separation. Now these changes reward those with superstars and high payrolls with more money than before. If the gap is allready widening, these changes will accentuate this. This can literally be translated to 'The rich get richer'. For those who have opted for a more well balanced roster instead of a 'stars and scrubs' approach, punishment awaits.

I have read in other posts, and mostly from other large countries like Italy, that if you get demoted from I good luck coming back up.

Not sure what that's based off of, but already there's been three teams demote from the NBBA and come back up within 2 seasons or less. I know of two teams that demoted into the same conference in division II and prob the biggest reason they didnt come right back was due to the difficult of that particular conference (big 8 in II.4, loaded from top to bottom). Many of the early season demotees quit before they tried to promote back up. The rest that went down are still competitive but havent been able to move back up which is a testament to the growing difficulty in II.

In short, I dont see this trend in the US.

If I new more about football I would use that as an example, but I just dont unfortunately.

Using American sports as an example, it is a rare case to see a player from another country not be equally embraced with similar skilled local players. I own 4 NBA jerseys; Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, and Peja. 2 Europeans, two Americans. I could care less about a player Nationality, ethnic origin, religion, or sexual orientation. If he helps my team win I love him, if he helps my rival win, I hate him. I hated Shaq in Orlando, Miami, and Phoenix, but loved him with the Lakers.

Anyone out there own a Manny Ramirez or Albert Pujols jersey? Maybe Johan Santana, Pedro Martinez or Fernando Velenzuela one?

8 of the top ten MLB Jerseys sold last year were non-american jerseys. When Wayne Gretzky came to the Kings, do you think anyone in LA cared he was Canadian? I answer with an emphatic 'Heck No, just win baby!'

I think we could have explained the logic of this decision a little better, but we also wanted to do the style of making the explanation in real world terms.. maybe just for stylistic reasons. Here is the straight economic balance logic behind it.

Salaries are going up as we have a set model for how a players skills/experience/whatever translate into salary. Either we had to change that model, which would break the continuity of peoples understanding of what salary means, or we have to increase revenue in order to keep the economy balanced. Up to this point revenue was too much, especially for higher divisions, hence the revenue sharing. Now that that is over, we are going to start to swing into revenue being too little and so we needed a mechanism to regulate revenue, and we are doing that through the tv contracts. Our aim in setting revenue is to make there be a gap between divisions, but not such a gap that moving between them is impossible. Having this knob allows us to directly control the differences in resources between divisions and between big countries and small countries.

We think this is better than having teams have to invest lots of money in big arenas to make big revenue when they are in large divisions, as building big arenas takes too much time and so would make it harder for teams to compete when they promote.

I think those who say the devil is in the details are correct, we need to tune this knob correctly such that the game stays balanced, and that is what we aim to do.

by doing the changes in the economy, which stops the point of spending for arena and now the tv contract is up.

in truth i have yet to see this, but the way im seeing it could it be that spending money now will be more on buying players and staff?

next thing ill see in the prices again will balloon for players and staff.

next question when you say negotiation for the tv contract does this mean

1. we get to have a series of offers, like 1 at a time, we can reject on our own expense an offer and agree only when we feel its ok. is there an indication that the contract is good or bad which by the way can be a good job for the PR guy, is there a limit time frame to choose offers ? or we see numbers of offer all at once and choose one base on merits or so?

2. with the merchandise sell, your already going to soon charge teams additional 10% increase in their salary and even though our jersey sales doesnt get to even reach it potential due to his not local? are we even entertaining racial discrimination?

basically we watch basketball games is not just about watching someone shoot the ball alone, but to be entertained. as fans we enjoys this team who has players that makes us stand on the stands and shout or in your living room at the edge of your seats and tense.

its not about his foreign or his american bad ass or his a german that has a problem with choosing a women in his life. its about if his able to carry his team in an awesome way that makes you say " damn he was the only difference why his team is so good"

i think it would also be fair for us or maybe supporters to have the ability to see or have a indication that their players level of popularity, like unknown then newspaper star then tv star etc etc etc

Last edited by Shoei at 6/3/2009 6:39:56 PM

Forrest you're my BB preferred You're the only one that speaks clearly and this is important for everyone I think. The problem is economic but I think you know very well that next season there will be another time the same problem when some players will earn 400k/week. The decision to reinvest the money earned on the market instead of the arena is the best choice, from my personal point of view I will change again the taxation on the players bought; 70% in the first week, 80% on the second week, 85% on the third week and 90% after one month. The taxation that we have today is a penalty for the day traders but also for all the other managers; one month on this game it means about 6 games/month excluding the cup matches.
So at the end, imho it could be ok to pay the best palyer 4m and not 1 $ more but this market seems frozen and this cannot be good