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The point is, and this is where i fear you are confusing new owners in this game...is that Star potential caps very quick....and often when you are new, you find a player or two you get excited about, envision that player being with your team forever, and that you will train him up, and he will help promote over and over and over....but then, after a couple of a seasons, boom, he's capped. That's dissapointing. Again, if you have a short term plan for a guy, fine, then that's your plan. but the notion that Star potential players are great players to train as the foundation of your team? Seriously? That just doesn't make a lot of sense.
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One of the biggest gripes you hear about teams in higher divisions is that its too difficult to train players, and win. Who can take an 18 year old 5K player and stick him in the starting lineup with his 50K to 100K players and not have it affect the team? So training Star, to see him cap shortly, and then start over again, becomes more unrreleastic the higher you go ion the game. Now, if you are planning to stay in DIII, then I guess you can try to make that work.

If you're thinking that I'm saying you train stars, cap them and train more star potential players, your contention makes more sense, as that would be a stupid plan. Let's say it takes 3 seasons to train a guard with star potential to his cap (though you can stretch it out with two position training, to give you more depth in exchange for slower increases). At that point, a team should have moved up from V to IV and probably have some moderate success in IV. At that point, you can switch to training big men with higher potential, while your capped guards are more than good enough to serve you in IV and even in III.

It may not be the "ideal" or recommended way of developing a team, but the throwaway line that "star potential is worthless" is patently and demonstrably false. You end your post with an appeal to new players to have a plan - which is absolutely essential! - but don't take into consideration that not all plans have to produce the same cookie-cutter players in the same order.

I think you ought to go back and reread exactly what hrudey is talking about when discussing training star potential players

I have read exactly what he said...and he's insistent on digging his feet in regarding the benefit, value, and intelligence regarding training Star potential players....Not many high level managers in this country that would reccomend such a strategy.

I think there are three points that are important to consider in this discussion, that I haven't seen brought up thus far. First is the initial cost of the trainee. Sure, when you're a team with a 16400 seat arena,

This isn't about me and what I am capable of doing. This is about not giving blanket statements that doing something is a good idea, so that a new owner reads and buys into it. Again, there are instances that training a Star potential, or any potential player can be of benefit...but each owner should make sure of that ahead of time.

and now you say the only smart move is to buy MVP+ potential for trainees? Seems unrealistic to me. Though maybe one can get "lucky" with their player transfers and accumulate sufficient money to do so. *snickers*

Perhaps you should go back and reread what I said...I was merely showing my popgression in my thinking concerning trainees...I never said, or implied that brand new owners should set the same standard I have for my team right now, and only train MVP or better.

Really, if I were starting a team now, with what I know, I'd buy 19 year old allstar and p allstar players who have excellent starting skill distributions. These kind of guys can be had for 10K and less at the start of a new season. Trained single position for 3 seasons, as you spend 1-2 in D5 and then in D4, and you'll have some quality starters/role players/backups for your team (accruing similar 'play now, pay later' value). As they cap out, sell some and turn that into better quality trainees. Or mix two guys like that with one 18 year old higher potential guy (superstar is a good place to start).

I agree with this, and think this is a great strategy for newer owners. Allstar is the bare minimum, but even with Allstar you can develop quality players that can last with your teaam for a while, and can stay with your team if you want as a quality backup as one promotes through the ranks, or as you said, will provide significant value.

Lastly, let's remember that there's a learning curve to training and creating useful builds in BB. A new trainer is going to go through the usual mistakes and errors that we all go through. .

Very true, this is why i suggested getting teamed up with a mentor. I was fortunate enough to enough have some of the best players in the game mentor me early in my career....and has greatly contributed to my success.

This isn't about me and what I am capable of doing. This is about not giving blanket statements that doing something is a good idea, so that a new owner reads and buys into it. Again, there are instances that training a Star potential, or any potential player can be of benefit...but each owner should make sure of that ahead of time.

Which part of :

Star potental is a complete waste of time to train.

isn't a blanket statement?

This isn't about me and what I am capable of doing. This is about not giving blanket statements that doing something is a good idea, so that a new owner reads and buys into it. Again, there are instances that training a Star potential, or any potential player can be of benefit...but each owner should make sure of that ahead of time.

Which part of :

Star potental is a complete waste of time to train.

isn't a blanket statement?

You are right....I did over present my point in response to your original post...that was my bad. I really meant that in relation to a long term strategy...overall, I do believe that training Star Potential or less is a waste of time...but there can be instances where it makes sense.

Last edited by Jason at 4/22/2012 10:18:04 PM

This isn't about me and what I am capable of doing. This is about not giving blanket statements that doing something is a good idea, so that a new owner reads and buys into it. Again, there are instances that training a Star potential, or any potential player can be of benefit...but each owner should make sure of that ahead of time.

Which part of :

Star potental is a complete waste of time to train.

isn't a blanket statement?

You are right....I did over present my point in response to your original post...that was my bad. I really meant that in relation to a long term strategy...overall, I do believe that training Star Potential or less is a waste of time...but there can be instances where it makes sense.

No problem. It's definitely a good discussion to have, and I think the biggest takeaway for anyone reading this should be that whatever side of that specific question you end up on, the important thing is to have a solid plan on how you're going to progress in the game.

This isn't about me and what I am capable of doing. This is about not giving blanket statements that doing something is a good idea, so that a new owner reads and buys into it. Again, there are instances that training a Star potential, or any potential player can be of benefit...but each owner should make sure of that ahead of time.

Which part of :

Star potental is a complete waste of time to train.

isn't a blanket statement?

You are right....I did over present my point in response to your original post...that was my bad. I really meant that in relation to a long term strategy...overall, I do believe that training Star Potential or less is a waste of time...but there can be instances where it makes sense.

No problem. It's definitely a good discussion to have, and I think the biggest takeaway for anyone reading this should be that whatever side of that specific question you end up on, the important thing is to have a solid plan on how you're going to progress in the game.

Absolutely....no doubt about that!

Ok, my take on this thread........you would want to train the youngest/best potential guy there is. ALWAYS allstar and up/below 20 years old and younger. And train other great potential guys with the main trainee guy in trash games. I'm doing that right now. Make sure to have a level 3 and up trainer. If you have the cash, get level 4. Makes training a tad bit quicker. With all this put together, you would have a more productive training regimen. Always try and get the best guy possible to help in the future!

Div V teams can easily afford a level 4 trainer. I would definitely stick pay the extra upfront cash and salary for a Level 4 trainer as opposed to a level 3 trainer. Level 5 and 6 trainers are much more expensive.

I had to pay 314k for a star potential trainee, but he's scoring 40 pts so it was worth it

See, good point. Very good star potential trainees can be very expensive already; boost that potential higher and the transfer price goes up accordingly. Very hard to expect a newer team will have sufficient money to get 2-3 of these trainees, as well as veterans for non-training positions, as keeping arena expansion going in order to maintain revenues to cover rising salaries.

And though I suggested 19 year old allstar and p-allstar guys as initial trainees for a new team, hrudey's approach of using 18 year old star potential guys is a great way to go if you want to two position train them. That extra year of good training ages will help offset the slow down of 2 position training. But in the end, you'll have more pieces to work with. That can allow you to keep some as good players for your team but also to sell some and turn them into higher salary/price veterans as you promote. Frankly, had I not gotten lucky and drafted a great 18 year old, I probably would have continued two position training.

In the end I hope this thread can be useful for new managers who see the constant advice of "only train high potential players" or "only train single position" and wonder whether other approaches are possible. There's a lot of nuance that's lost in those blanket statements. This can let people make a more informed decision.