BuzzerBeater Forums

I 've been reading this thread the last few days. Since its talking about training, I might as well jump in the conversation.

When I started in season 19, I gone on a spending spree in order to make my team better. Yea, ultimately it was a bad idea but I can tell you prices were lower back then. Now to the run stuff.

I think training is vital to a team's success. Sure, some managers don't think training is great and all, but it does help your team to some extent. Last season I kept my 3rd round allstar drafted. I have trained him only for a little bit. but he already has 11 ID. I think training is beyond just looking at potential and saying "allstar, he sucks!" for the new crew of managers. I teach about a dozen guys who I got from another online site to play BB. Of those teams, only 3 has a MVP+ player that they are training. 2 other teams have USA U21 prospects on their team, and one has a Romanian U21 Star that he has trained on his team (20 yrs old at that too)

I taught them about training and such, and now they are all excelling, 2 of them are against ea h other fighting for promotion. Others are in the playoffs in their respective division. Now, if they didn't have a trainee, I can say that their teams would not be where th ey are now. Of course, a mentor helps, but even I got the hung of training for a short bit by just reading the manual.

The thing is most newbies don't want to read the manual because it is "boring" or "too log to read" and I can agree to that. It took my half a season to finally take my time to read it myself. We have one on one mentoring help on the help forum, and in the USA off-site. But.still there are teams leaving. Wonder why? Because in their starting teams they got a complete trash roster. Now, it helps GREATLY if you sign up right before the draft. But to the select people who didn't catch the draft time? They are stuck.

Now, I like what another person has said about implementing 22-25 year olds into FA. I have a suggestion myself...how about an expansion draft? It could only hold maximum salary of 8,000 and then it holds players ages 21-26. This gives new guys the chance to get at least someone to help their team win.

I personally think training provides a team at least 2 players in their starting 5 while they are saving cash for their stud free agent. There is a team in USA owned by fruity cakes. He has never made it out of d4. Wondeer why? He never takes the effort to train a player. If he had trained just one decent guy he would be in the right direction. Training may not be fun in some cases, but it's a highway to the right road. But what can I say? I'm tanking and I bought a trainee for 2.1 million bucks and he has only had 2 pops all year....

I bought a trainee for 2.1 million bucks and he has only had 2 pops all year....

Good endorsement of training .... but this thread is about "inflation." (with that term being misapplied)

Training effects inflation in a big way though. More players being trained, would equal more player s to choose from in the TL. Some guys still "daytrade" trainees with as potential. Some make a good profit, others don't. Some go on to keep getting trained, while others stay at their skillsets.

If people took more hand to training that would cool down these absurd prices. Back in the day a 50k guard cost only 500k. Now they cost 800k-a mil. Makes me just want to train one myself (already am training one.) And I know that you can make agood 40k.to 50k guard with AS potential. Could even make some noise in some d3 USA leagues.

If you train at the start, you can make some nice bench players as well for your team. 15k all you need for a good d3 bench.

Last edited by tough at 3/22/2015 8:34:38 PM

Now, wasn't talking training being negative or anything. I'm just saying training all types of players. Some guys are screwed in training a MVP early in their bb life. Now that is all fine and well, but I personally wouldn't have paid 500k+ for a Mvp while I could easily get a PAS for 100k or a AS for 75k.

The way people train guys is different because of the new era. Back in the day, it was run and gun. Then around season 12 (right?) LI was born. High IS-ID-RB guys were the trend. Now as we are moving towards seasons 32 and beyond, the new trend is guys wih great secondaries. The fact is not the amount of monoskilled guys being built, but the amount of secondary and salary efficient guys being built. Since there are very few of these guys being built, they go for a ton of cash. Like you said, 600 are fully trained well. But how many would people actually want to sell? The select few that are put on the TL are high priced and expensive, thus making inflation.

Yea, the amount of users is making inflation worse but. hopefully utopia can get us out of the problem that they started with their managers finishing out the product that is their trainees.

So, just to be clear, when people say "are you going to do anything about inflation" and the BBs say no and do nothing insted, that's "fixing by overdoing"? I hadn't realized (or is it realised?) that. Funny how different the language became on this side of the pond.

I'm not referring to 'do nothing and leave things as they are' when I say overdoing. This is what will happen: BBs say they like inflation and that the market is not out of control. People will keep complaining on forums with very logical arguments. BBs will change something else, because they love high prices, but will need to do something, and that will create additional problems (like when they changed the way the haircut on a transfer price is calculated or like it may well happen if they get the JR change wrong like they did OD). Another example or a change which yielded unexpected negative effects is the tax against daytrading. We are already seeing that this tax has a negative impact on the whole market as people refrain from listing players or fire them.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2015 6:21:09 AM

because those taxes, as I repeated several times, are just the same as before, just slightly harsher for the teams selling 15/20+ players each season.

Well they are affecting all rational people, since they constrain roster changes at all levels. Trainerman is an extreme example (personally I thought of buying a player to fill in for an injured one and then fire him instead of selling him in the first half of the season), but the turnover of players per team is much lower this season. I see that in both my main league and Utopia.

So you could say I'm talking based on direct observation of the environment I'm in. If you want to say that's not hard evidence, go right ahead, however I dare you to equally explain with hard evidence how people are not affected in their decisions by the tax (and assuming you manage the impossible, I would then like to hear why we have the tax at all, if it doesn't affect the managers' behaviour re: listing players). Or even, more simply, if in your opinion people have not modified their behaviour in terms of number of roster changes over a season, please do make a case on why rationally you think that's the case.

Logic would have it this way: higher taxes on roster changes = fewer roster changes (without even getting to people firing players instead of selling them which has happened as we know); fewer roster changes = fewer players on the market; fewer players on the market = higher prices. I'm not saying the tax caused inflation by itself, I'm saying it contributed to make it worse. So BBs have created extra inflation in the overall market to prevent daytrading, which was my argument in trying to explain what I meant by "overdoing" and having "unwanted"/"unexpected" effects.


EDIT for Perpete: I've found at least another who was going to fire instead of selling to keep taxes low: HAHA. It's in the daytrading taxes thread.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2015 12:52:44 PM

Yea, the amount of users is making inflation worse but. hopefully utopia can get us out of the problem that they started with their managers finishing out the product that is their trainees.

Utopia is the main reason for the inflation. Suddenly you had 1000 teams with garbage rosters looking to upgrade. So all the mid-low level players cost spiked immediately after Utopia started. In the long run it might balance out IF people stick around...of course the big question now is what's going to happen to the players in those teams who will not renew their Utopia package. We all know the answer to that question given the current policy (they will all be deleted).

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2015 11:36:44 AM

There is currently 470 players with a current bid (or starting bid) at 5000$ or less. People are still selling low end players.

Lots of good comments since I read this thread yesterday. Forgive me for going back to page 2 to respond to the comment above. I think this is important for illustration.

Perpete is correct. When I did this same search, I found 475 players with a bid of $5000 or less. But let's consider the following scenario:

I just got my new team today. I see a roster of "scrubs." My best players earn $3000 to $4000 a week. The new owner checklist wants me to go buy a player on the TL. OK. If I'm going to buy a player, I'm going to buy a better player than the scrubs I already have. So, I search for players who have a maximum bid of $5000 and a minimum salary of $5000. What do I find? Of the 475 players who have a maximum bid of $5000, only 73 have a salary of at least $5000. That means of Perpete's 470 players, more than 80 percent are players that aren't going to make any team better ... at least not right now. Also, I've read the game manual and I've learned that at age 34 players begin to lose their abilities. Crap, I don't want no old guy who's not going be as good at the end of the season as he is now, so I add a maximum age of 33 to my search. What do I get then? 22 players with a minimum salary of $5000, under the age of 34 and with a low bid.

The thing is, though, 5000 salary is just an arbitrary point as well. I know I did a search just now for players under 5000 salary with at least 36 guard skill points and a current bid under 5000. Now, of course, of those 64 players there are some that are total junk, and others that are certainly an improvement above starting players but still very cost effective. 22 of those guys are 19 or younger, and some of those even have decent to good potential, while 58 of them are age 32 and below.

The same thing happens when you use 24 big man points - I'm seeing 62 currently, 18 of them at age 19 or below and 57 are 32 and below.

And you are signing up some 200 new owners every week and this is what they have to choose from?

Now granted, you don't have to be so cheap when shopping for players. So, let's change our maximum bid to $100,000. New owners certainly can buy at least one player for that amount of money and still have enough left to start building the arena, pay for scouting, buy other players, etc. I still want a $5000-a-week player and I still want a player who won't start dropping in skill after I sign him so still a maximum of 33 years old. And the total is ... 107.

Again, you're signing up some 200 new owners every week and there aren't enough players on the market for all of them to be able to complete the dang checklist ... unless you expect them to sign some old fogey or some crappy player that is no better than the scrubs you handed them on their original roster. Any wonder why new owners don't stick around for long?

The assumption there, of course, is that everyone who signs up immediately logs in, hits the transfer market when they're allowed to, and tries to buy players. I suppose it would be an interesting experiment to track the people who join the game in a given time and see how frequently they log in the first few months if they last that long - not one that I have the time or inclination to do, and maybe Marin's already got some data on that.

But yeah, when prices were falling we went from 40k+ users to 20k+ users, and now that prices are rising, that's causing the loss of users. The simple fact is that this game is a dinosaur in the modern internet, and the type of people who would enjoy it are for the most part already here.