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You know as well as anyone that nothing has been removed from your toolset as a manager; you can still buy players, sell players, train players, draft players, and for the most part all of those options remain fundamentally unchanged.

... You see, that is what they call different ways to play the game.

You are missing the point, probably deliberately, eh? Compete is what I said. "Play the game" is not the same. Neither is a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Trying to compete without training is being made increasingly difficult to the point where it is becoming no longer viable, i.e. cancelled. We all know that, so no need for you to blow smoke.

I am wholly and entirely unconvinced that it is not possible to compete in multiple different ways, not limited to the ones I explicitly stated. Whether you personally can compete effectively or easily or not is beyond my knowledge.

I don't really think we're a million miles apart here as it might seem at first glance. I even agree that the free agents I'm talking about might not be enough.

I'd actually ignored the possibility of boosting training, because I just don't see the likelihood of an improvement to training. I was under the impression that the BBs were happy with training as is. Were there to be a significant change to training I'd be ecstatic. Both for my own team and the NT.

I don't really think we're a million miles apart here as it might seem at first glance. I even agree that the free agents I'm talking about might not be enough.

I'd actually ignored the possibility of boosting training, because I just don't see the likelihood of an improvement to training. I was under the impression that the BBs were happy with training as is. Were there to be a significant change to training I'd be ecstatic. Both for my own team and the NT.

I would have liked it say three seasons ago, when I was getting ready to embark on my next challenge. It would help now too, of course.

I don't think boosting training would fix everything, either, unfortunately. I think that replacing a reasonable chunk of each draft pool with players along the lines of 15-20k salary, decently rounded 22 year olds would make the draft useful for teams *not* in the chase for the top prospect, when one worth a darn exists, and allows teams to still build somewhat internally without having to rely solely on training. There may be some balance issues with that specific salary range at the IV level - a manager in a mostly bot league who already has trainees could well pick up three players better than anyone else in the league in a single draft - but that's all implementation details.

I just like the training speed improvement as a major component because as things stand, it takes way too long for someone to notice a lack of supply and decide that they're going to capitalize on that opportunity. In the end, I suppose I'll always be one of those "if I want a specific player I have to plan on creating him myself" managers, but something that would allow the quality of available players to increase that still rewards managerial choice rather than just a straight player dump seems like the best avenue.

I just don't see any desire on the part of the BBs to do anything about training. The last "improvement" which allows out of position training, actually allows us to choose to slow training. If there was to be a speeding up of training, or even just an attempt to balance training where training JR gave the same total training (ignoring outside factors) as one on one, then I'd be as delighted as you.

I just haven't ever seen much point in discussing training as its largely dismissed. (The discussion, not training)

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That's 3 starters, which I play every week in the same position thanks to the current training system. You're welcome.

Now if you have a problem with the current training system because it's literally impossible to raise an entire team of trained players, well you have a point. However, you, like the other self-proclaimed 'joker', are misrepresenting the problem, in a way convenient to you. Marin wants to incentivise training, make it 'king' as you say. Unfortunately training can't build you a team. So we have a bit of a problem.



Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2016 6:18:43 PM

if market is like that is because the number of users is decreased and with him the number of users so train....

Now, this is also incorrect like many other things in this thread.

If the same percentage of people train today as they were training 15 seasons ago, there should be no difference. Say we all produce on average 2 players every 5 seasons then we have 6 homegrown players and we need to find another 2-6 extra players somewhere else or use untrained players. The extra players can only come from teams who are no longer in the game.

However it's not a problem of how many users you have, but how many trained player each team can produce and how many teams quit as a percentage of the total.

When you drop the size of the userbase from 60k to 30k as fast as it did, and dump out the orphaned talent into the player pool, that will naturally boost the amount of players available and therefore reduce the prices.

Oh poor hrudey, it seems like sometimes then Free Agency has a bit more than a marginal effect. So hrudey has it both ways:
1) when it's convenient to hrudey Free Agency has 'very little' impact
2) when it's convenient to hrudey Free Agency does 'naturally boost' the amount of players and does have an effect
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Ah the irony!

the time spent not training has essentially removed an entire generation of players from the market at many levels.

You know that could be actually believable if you stated that the people who quit the game actually were training much more than those who are still here. A claim impossible to verify, but at least it would make some sense.

Are we refusing to admit that it's quite literally impossible to train enough players for everyone, something that even BB-Ryan has acknowledged? It should be obvious to anyone that this is the case, since it's impossible to build a fully trained homegrown team if you need 5 or more seasons (this is much less than 8+ potential players) to fully train a player and you can simultaneously train 3 players at most. The system is sustainable on 2 principles: people quitting leave trained players behind and, more importantly, a number of teams actually play the game with untrained or badly/partially trained players. In the current environment the untrained and badly/partially trained players will inevitably grow at every level.

The problem is supply and demand when tons of players got dumped on the TL years ago, and the problem is supply and demand now when there are fewer players of a high end stature.

Dumped...sometimes I wonder if they magically appeared on the TL.

Unfortunately, you are looking at the problem in a very limited way. The real problem is how many trained players on average each team can create at maximum efficiency before they lose enough skills to become fairly useless...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2016 6:15:07 PM

Your points are definitely valid, especially on the lack of talent being produced but I don't think the answer is necessarily speeding up training.

I would end the restrictions on FAs and increase the no. of high level trainers. At least make people pay for their improved training.

Also you could be a bit less confrontational, you're starting to sound like some of the more erratic members of the community.