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offensive flow

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36033.37 in reply to 36033.36
Date: 6/19/2008 9:24:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
155155
You're not understanding what I mean. Maybe the system is fine as you say. However, if what you say is true, your players either need good driving or good passing. You do not need both.

Anyhow, why does the game have to be so simple? That's one of the reasons why I like this game, it has many layers of complexity, unlike the utter simplicity of the game engine in HT which gets boring fast. Besides, I don't think that my suggestion adds much complexity.

Also, it basically means that having a good offensive flow is not useful. It would be more productive to train players in driving, IMO. This is because a player can get open with a pass OR with a drive. You don't need both.

Finally, that's fine if that's the way the system works. Then I can train my players accordingly. It would be nice if this stuff was in the rules, though.

Run of the Mill Canadian Manager
This Post:
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36033.39 in reply to 36033.38
Date: 6/20/2008 12:35:00 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
i think we have to be more specific in this

the way i understand is,

if your player has offensive skills better than the level of defensive skill his match up brings more or less you will be succesful in terms of his output, but if the defensive player is better or somewhat same level you would see a change in your players output. now this also varies to the type of strategy being put up!

that is the type of shots taken, number of shots and results meaning does he get them in as usual or better or worst.

now there is a complexity that goes with this, because i notice your offense also response to the kinds of players or teammates on the floor and the defensive team.


This Post:
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36033.40 in reply to 36033.33
Date: 6/20/2008 1:17:12 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
196196
i dont get it ?

why are we tackling the issue of personal stats when we are talking about offensive flow


I am trying to find out if I should invest money in training or buying players with good handling and passing skills. I assume that if you are getting assists, you are getting high quality opportunities. However, assists seem to be at a premium in this game.

So does that mean offensive flow is worthless? Are my efforts better spent on training shooting or rebounding? Or is offensive flow working in a hidden way that you do not see in the stats?



I would argue (with limited knowledge) that high passing might mean players with less JS / IS can score easier... as i have been training passing alot i obviously havent trained much JS... so if the pass is really good I imagine the receiver has more time to get his shot off and therefore a better chance of scoring...

so great pass to ok shooter could be as valuable as an ok pass to a better shooter... or is this a silly assumption?

This Post:
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36033.41 in reply to 36033.40
Date: 6/20/2008 3:48:01 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
depends really,

i think it might go a certain number of times but to go with consistently especially on a much tougher team would be . . . hard to accomplish!

This Post:
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36033.42 in reply to 36033.22
Date: 6/22/2008 5:08:51 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
2222
if a player is the only option of a skill (i.e passing, rebound..) in a team, he gets a lot of them..
10+ APG of David Delacourt does not mean that he has a great passing skill, that means his passing skill is much higher than his playmates..
game engine first decides if there will be an assist or not, then it decides who will make it happen..



I agree on this one...

based on my experience, i have PG's who have a level (or two) higher on passing and handling than other players, but still, my PG's give about mediocre assists because even though they have high passing skills, my other players can contribute assists as well... resulting in my team having high assist totals, yet my PG's are just contributors... not sole producers, of assists.

in the league i'm participating, my team assists average are high enough for it. with the help of my players passing around the ball, but still, i don't have decent offensive flow rating on my team... that's one mystery still for me.

This Post:
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36033.44 in reply to 36033.43
Date: 6/22/2008 12:46:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
1212
a radical thought:

i think that offensive flow is most useful in minimizing the number of turnovers (24 second violations especially)

and it it also has hidden attributes to raising the percentage of your shots, independent of assists. a wide open layup path to the basket may be unassissted but it is no doubt good flow. bad flow is alot of shots with 2 seconds on the clock with a hand in your face.

so offensive flow matters... but not in the way people discuss it.

good flow means alot of shots that are open, or at least with an opponent backed off slightly.

bad flow is contested shots and turnovers...


This Post:
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36033.45 in reply to 36033.44
Date: 6/22/2008 10:07:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
true

still going back to the question . . . saying it another way as yours

how do we do it to have that flow like of what yor saying.

what do we need to have?


This Post:
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36033.46 in reply to 36033.45
Date: 6/22/2008 10:55:19 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
166166
I think offensive flow is not just passing the ball well, is much more than this.

Remember that this is a basketball simulator and basketball is a TEAM game.

So, IMO, OF is the simulation of team play, like the running of plays (ISOs, cuts to the bkt, pick'n'rolls) and their final result. This means that not just passing is involved but all the off skills of the player(s).

OF can vary because an opponents team is very good at defending your type of offense, or because it can defend a pivotal player in your team to a standstill. It can vary also if your team changes its type of offense and doesn´t adapt to it.

When i first changed my type of offense from base to motion I noticed a drop in my teams offensive prodution but after a few games it started to go up.

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