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anyhow, we got to give it to Cyprus. they surprized everyone, and if Danmark England and we would have had different outcomes, then Cyprus would have made it to the second position in our league... you got to give them credit for that

oh please...

let me rephrase that again: if Danmark England and we would have had different outcomes

Now, IF 3 other games would have diffrent outcomes we would be in first place.

Cyprus has doomed their chances starting in game 1. It was obvious then. Only a miracle would make it otherwise.

If Cyprus had played normal, they might have still won, and then they probably ended in second place, or at least had much better chances.

I can not but call it a mistake. I did it then, I'm doing it again. The fact you are now naming 3 things that shuld have been diffrent for Cyprus to succeed...

An other fact is that it indeed is very hard to get more then e few crunches againt your team. Unless a team is clearly much stronger, no team can withstand and survive if everyone decides to crunch on them.
It work's 2 ways: first they take a victory from you, but second they also mostly hand out a win to a concurrent. If that happens 4 times, the result is quickly predicted.


I stress again that I don't hold anything against crunch, or I also don't mind loosing. I'd only wish the winning, and crunching team would indeed gain somethnig out of it. Making 1 team loose and an other win, only to come out in the position you would likely end up in if you didn't twist and altered the other team's standings isn't what the tactics where invented for.

I also know the Cyprus NT thought that this was his only shot (so he explained) so I'm not mad at him. He will probaly have learned from this which is good for his future decisions.
But giving him credit for his crunch against us (and believe me that I would say the same if it was against any other country) is asked a little to much.

All in all we must face the truth. You can try your best, if others decide it's not your season, there's nothing you can do about it.
Good job Joe!!

the fact that he though of this plan (very daring plan, and the chances for him to pull it off where slim) and executed his part of it, i find that worth giving him credit for it.

and their is also something else. Germany was the strongest from the beginning, that is something everyone will agree on. if you looked at the second spot, their were 3 teams ( 4 if we take Cyprus into account) that could have won that spot. for Cyprus, they needed everything to go right ( and in BB it hardly ever goes right, still it's worth a try). they needed to win their games, and hope for us to lose to eachother.

the misstep was that he didn't count on having a fight with the remaining teams...

that said, i find he deserves the credit for trying to pull it off. he'll atleast have won 1 spot on the rankings, and if he's lucky, he might end up 3rd in our division.

what Joe has learn this season, is what it means to be seen as the team to beat for the second position. Geramny was first, and if you look at the rankings, Belgium should be just behind Germany in terms of strengh in the team. yet we weren't. and the others saw that aswell.

it unlikely that we'll be the highest ranked NT team in a round robin pool, but we might be ranked second again, and be seen again as the team to beat. i hope that Joe ( or whoever succeeds him if he were to stop with the NT) will remember this lesson. what it means to be seen as the team to beat. i am not sure if the results of some games would have been different, but out of each game (and each season), you got to remember the good points and the bad points. and take them on with you to the next game ( and next season). you got to work on them.

ofcourse, i would have prefered to see Belgium without a loss at this point. cause then we would be qualified at this stage, and the remaining game, we could have used as a game to try out something new...

but as i said, things rarely go as you would like them to go, or as you had planned them. that is what makes this game so much fun, cause it's unpredictable. no matter what the odds are, you can win a game. i recall BoD getting beaten in the cup by a 4th division team(!) a few seasons ago. i've seen BoD make an incredible comeback in B3 this season, to win the game.

and if LoD can do it, why wouldn't our NT be able to beat Germany? if we lose, so be it. our NT won the games against Danmark and England, with GS of players, that were far from ideal. Joe has done whatever he could under the circumstances, and he's done a great job untill now.

even if Joe loses the game against Germany, and we end up being 3rd (or 4th), even then, i wouldn't have wanted anyone else as NT coach. Joe has shown us that he dares to make decisions everyone else wouldn't have made. and to be honest, i still believe in Joe. he has nothing to prove anymore. he's a great coach, and his proven that to everyone already.

if you compare the salary of the NT teams we played against, then you'll see that the Belgian NT team is one of the few that doesn't have one or plural 100k+ centres. yet he's given us ( however small it may be) a chance to qualify. that second place is still ours and it will remain ours until next week monday. what happenes monday, we don't know that yet, but let's have faith in Joe. he has given us a shot to qualify, so let's see if that one shot will be enough.

cause unlike Danmark, we don't have to take their game into account. if we can keep the goal difference in the game against Germany really close, then Danmark will need to trash England to win. and what if we were to win? then the game of Danmark doesn't even matter anymore.

our game, will be decisif for who gets that second spot. not the game between England and Danmark...

so everyone here should tune in monday, and come and see the game against Germany. come and have a look at our NT team, and be proud of what Joe has accomplished.

Rev

i hope that Joe ( or whoever succeeds him if he were to stop with the NT) will remember this lesson.

heh, the problem is there is no lesson to be learned. Wheter you know this or not doesn't make a diffrence as the other teams have your fate in their hands.
The NT coach can only try his best, and hope he doesn't get screwed by the rest.

If you still feel Cyprus did not make a mistake crunching, and believe he had more chances of getting in second place by crunching then when playing normal, I think there are some things about enthousiasm that you still need to learn.
We all agree on 1 thing though. He needed everything to go right to be able to end second. And that meant he had to try to beat us with normal, hoping we would TIE, and then try to win the next games as well. If he'd played Germany next, I might be okay with the crunch as he could regain his enthousiasm in a game he wouldn't try to win anyway, but that wasn't the case. He gambled on to many things that had to go right, where he could have had enough with fewer luck-factors. But okay, that's everone's own vision I guess.

About salary. Times have long passed that salaries indicate the quality of players.
I can pick a team for you containing all players with wages over 50k each, and easely beat it with my team, if I can find 5 Rio Garcia's with a wage of half that amount.
the best example is the most expensive player I owned for a short while. Siontis had a wage close to 70k, yet he came no-where close to the quality on the floor that Rio Garcia has. He actually was the least player in my team as a matter of fact... So don't go blind on wages. If the player is nicely trained it will indicate the quality, but mostly, the higher the wage, the more twisted and unbalanced the players get...

salary ain't everything that is true.

but Joe has faced of against the SG of Georgia. and that 153k SG didn't only have firepower, we was quite well on the defending end of the court too.

so i'll admit that salary ain't everything, it's more like a burden on your team come to think of it, but in the NT you sometimes want these super (unbalanced) players, cause they need an equally unbalanced player to be defended...

the time of taditional players is comming to an end now.

am maybe this comparison is not the good one to make, but with 5 Rio Garcia's on the floor, could you win the B3 championship? you think it is possible with 5 rio Garcia's?

when i think of my team in the futur, i not only think about defence. i think about how can my player be the player that i want him to be, without giving him a killing salary but with the skills to cause an upset when needed. they must have that one special thing that i can use... that one thing that can give me an edge on anyone. that's what i am looking for... and most likely, the trick will be to find the players that give the edge, but don't have the killing salary. (maybe Garcia falls in this catergory, if so, then congrats on having one of those players already)

Rev

maybe Garcia falls in this catergory, if so, then congrats on having one of those players already

thanks. That's also the reason why he didn't get TL-ed when he hit the age of 27.

I think Sen is also such a player, but I still need to verify. Unfortunatly Sen was in bad shape, so I couldn't have him start in the cup...

You also talk about the age of the traditional players has passed... what exactly do you mean?
I am still looking for the same type of player I have been looking for since I started this game. So what has been changed? I should know, maybe I must change my search profile...

With 5 Rio Garcia's I will probably not win the B3, since I will need 10. I also need back-ups. ;)

No ofcourse not. Rio Garcia can easely play and perform well on all positions except maybe center, but he's only at his best at SF. But with 5 players who play their position equally well as Rio Garcia plays SF, and the same qualities at their own positions, I would be willing to make a shot at the B3 title, yes.
(and probaly get kicked out first round ;) )

About the big SG from Georgia, we did some tests with revo and it's a fact: this player is incredibly strong in each 6 importants skills.

now that is very nice. And I'd also prefer this one over any other who lacks 1 or 2 or those 6 skills and has some better tertiary skills.
BUT it also means there is a possible weakness in this player, and weaknesses can be exploited.
If you put a strong inside scorer against him, and play an inside focus, he might get in trouble if his inside defense is low...

so it's better to sacrifice 1 level of each of the 6 primaries, if you can get 2 or 3 skills higher in his other skills. Which also means his salary would be lower...

Ofcourse it's also possible the player already has a good mix of all his skills, and has no weaknesses. In that case, the higher salary will ofcourse be an indication he will be better. But we can't realy see that. So that's why I don't like comparing teams against each other based on salary...

maybe Garcia falls in this catergory, if so, then congrats on having one of those players already

thanks. That's also the reason why he didn't get TL-ed when he hit the age of 27.

I think Sen is also such a player, but I still need to verify. Unfortunatly Sen was in bad shape, so I couldn't have him start in the cup...

You also talk about the age of the traditional players has passed... what exactly do you mean?
I am still looking for the same type of player I have been looking for since I started this game. So what has been changed? I should know, maybe I must change my search profile...

if i set up a PF guy as my SF ( presuming i got a PF with lvl 9 OD and good inside skills) and i go inside, then i'll dominate your SF (with lvl 10 on all skills) ... and you going outside? well be my guest, since that lvl 9 OD will be a good match for your lvl 10 JS, JR combo...

==> so your SF needs an extra... he needs an extra in his ID or his OD, or in his shooting... a balanced player is great to have, but when facing extreem orientated inside/outside players, he will get dominated time after time after time... nowadays, we need that extra. and since alot of managers still think the 'classic' way ( no offence ment by it, but i don't know how to describe it otherwise) they don't pay attention to that extra... and sooner or later it will get to it. in ordre to be succesfull to reach to top, you'll need to do some daring moves... but once you are at the top, you need to keep thinking a few steps in advance, in ordre to be able to stay at the top. i know you have remained at the top for several years LoD, but to remain their in the futur, you will have to make some daring moves, as will i have to make some moves to get at the top. and sometimes, you proof to be wrong, and sometimes, you get it right. thats how life goes.

About the big SG from Georgia, we did some tests with revo and it's a fact: this player is incredibly strong in each 6 importants skills.

now that is very nice. And I'd also prefer this one over any other who lacks 1 or 2 or those 6 skills and has some better tertiary skills.
BUT it also means there is a possible weakness in this player, and weaknesses can be exploited.
If you put a strong inside scorer against him, and play an inside focus, he might get in trouble if his inside defense is low...

i'd love to find the player who's got the inside to be effective on the SG position (for an inside orientated attack) AND have the defence to stop a monster like that. you'd be looking at a SF with one hell of good inside skills, and one hell of a OD to go with it... and good allround players are rare nowadays, and even harder to train... try training a SG of 193 cm in Id or rebounding, you'll have a hard time. just as you'll have a hard time training a 206 cm guy in OD to train his Od to a monsterious lvl... that guy shot 50% from the field ( including 3's) with the best defender (in combo with GS) in his face... and his GS was only lvl 7 when he faces use ( thank the BB-god that it wasn't higher than a 7).


Revo

ps: before i knew a few things already, however, i needed somebody to point it out to me before i fully comprehended it, and now, i need to adjust some training in ordre to be able to keep aiming for my goal, and that is to get promoted into the BBBL someday... everyone needs to prepare themselves, and look for changes, and the best way to do thing, is by learning from eachother. sharing info with eachother... but the really matters (other than having fun ofcourse) is what you'll do with that piece of information.


Last edited by AthrunZala at 2/3/2010 9:26:12 AM

if i set up a PF guy as my SF ( presuming i got a PF with lvl 9 OD and good inside skills) and i go inside, then i'll dominate your SF (with lvl 10 on all skills) ... and you going outside? well be my guest, since that lvl 9 OD will be a good match for your lvl 10 JS, JR combo...

I'm sorry but I don't realy get that part, or at least, I don't get what you try to say.
But as far as that goes, yes I think Rio Garcia might be able to handle your PF guy (read get a positive balance on offense/defense compared to your player you put at SF), who as it looks isn't realy a PF but a SF. (yes PFs with that high OD are actually SFs to me ; ) )

i'd love to find the player who's got the inside to be effective on the SG position (for an inside orientated attack) AND have the defence to stop a monster like that.

just any PF would do, or maybe a SF with good inside attack. Don't worry about OD. Just let the SG defend as PF (or SF) and have someone with high OD play at PF spot defending as a SG. There's options opened up to everyone.
As you said we must always look out for changes, and adapt our ways. We have been given new ways of dividing our attacks and defenses on the court. We must learn to use them. ;)

I still didn't get an indication why I should change the way I prefer my players. It might be new to you, as you point out you didn't see it in the beginning and someone showed you. I have always valued secondary and tertiary skills, in a reasonable quantity.
there is a very delicate balance in skills that are needed for every type of position. When I say balance I never meant each skill should be equally high, I meant the player needs the perfect mix.

the first 2 or 3 seasons I spend adapting the perfect mic for my players. Last 5 seasons I didn't change them at all. I am probably off the exact ideal. But my formulas have been working for me since many seasons, and I didn't see any indication why I should be adapting them yet...

EDIT: no you won't get my formulas!

Last edited by Lord of Doom at 2/3/2010 9:54:29 AM

the first 2 or 3 seasons I spend adapting the perfect mic for my players. Last 5 seasons I didn't change them at all. I am probably off the exact ideal. But my formulas have been working for me since many seasons, and I didn't see any indication why I should be adapting them yet...

well, if you are confident with your skills, then all the better. maybe you are one of those managers ( and i am not sarcastic here!), who have been steps ahead of everyone, and don't need to do any fine tuning now, because you were so many steps ahead of the others...

or maybe, it's just because you sticked to your gameplan all the time, and that we others all have been changing our plan continuously to try in an attempt to deal with whatever came our way. maybe you are one of those lucky coaches who've understood the game way before us, and because of that, was able to assemble a team that you liked and that fitted your game plan. i am still learning alot, and i learned very much this season (thanks to Joe!) about BB, and without any dought, i'll learn even more in the seasons to come...

EDIT: no you won't get my formulas!

no offence ment, but i don't want them either. cause your formulas will work for your team, but that doesn't mean they'll work for my team. each team (and manager) is unique and theirfor, each team has a unique 'perfect' mix...

so i rather not get yours, since i might be tempted to try them out, and theirby, i'd end up screwing up my own team...

Rev