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I bought a trainee for 2.1 million bucks and he has only had 2 pops all year....

Good endorsement of training .... but this thread is about "inflation." (with that term being misapplied)

Training effects inflation in a big way though. More players being trained, would equal more player s to choose from in the TL. Some guys still "daytrade" trainees with as potential. Some make a good profit, others don't. Some go on to keep getting trained, while others stay at their skillsets.

If people took more hand to training that would cool down these absurd prices. Back in the day a 50k guard cost only 500k. Now they cost 800k-a mil. Makes me just want to train one myself (already am training one.) And I know that you can make agood 40k.to 50k guard with AS potential. Could even make some noise in some d3 USA leagues.

If you train at the start, you can make some nice bench players as well for your team. 15k all you need for a good d3 bench.

Last edited by tough at 3/22/2015 8:34:38 PM

Now, wasn't talking training being negative or anything. I'm just saying training all types of players. Some guys are screwed in training a MVP early in their bb life. Now that is all fine and well, but I personally wouldn't have paid 500k+ for a Mvp while I could easily get a PAS for 100k or a AS for 75k.

The way people train guys is different because of the new era. Back in the day, it was run and gun. Then around season 12 (right?) LI was born. High IS-ID-RB guys were the trend. Now as we are moving towards seasons 32 and beyond, the new trend is guys wih great secondaries. The fact is not the amount of monoskilled guys being built, but the amount of secondary and salary efficient guys being built. Since there are very few of these guys being built, they go for a ton of cash. Like you said, 600 are fully trained well. But how many would people actually want to sell? The select few that are put on the TL are high priced and expensive, thus making inflation.

Yea, the amount of users is making inflation worse but. hopefully utopia can get us out of the problem that they started with their managers finishing out the product that is their trainees.

So, just to be clear, when people say "are you going to do anything about inflation" and the BBs say no and do nothing insted, that's "fixing by overdoing"? I hadn't realized (or is it realised?) that. Funny how different the language became on this side of the pond.

I'm not referring to 'do nothing and leave things as they are' when I say overdoing. This is what will happen: BBs say they like inflation and that the market is not out of control. People will keep complaining on forums with very logical arguments. BBs will change something else, because they love high prices, but will need to do something, and that will create additional problems (like when they changed the way the haircut on a transfer price is calculated or like it may well happen if they get the JR change wrong like they did OD). Another example or a change which yielded unexpected negative effects is the tax against daytrading. We are already seeing that this tax has a negative impact on the whole market as people refrain from listing players or fire them.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2015 6:21:09 AM

because those taxes, as I repeated several times, are just the same as before, just slightly harsher for the teams selling 15/20+ players each season.

Well they are affecting all rational people, since they constrain roster changes at all levels. Trainerman is an extreme example (personally I thought of buying a player to fill in for an injured one and then fire him instead of selling him in the first half of the season), but the turnover of players per team is much lower this season. I see that in both my main league and Utopia.

So you could say I'm talking based on direct observation of the environment I'm in. If you want to say that's not hard evidence, go right ahead, however I dare you to equally explain with hard evidence how people are not affected in their decisions by the tax (and assuming you manage the impossible, I would then like to hear why we have the tax at all, if it doesn't affect the managers' behaviour re: listing players). Or even, more simply, if in your opinion people have not modified their behaviour in terms of number of roster changes over a season, please do make a case on why rationally you think that's the case.

Logic would have it this way: higher taxes on roster changes = fewer roster changes (without even getting to people firing players instead of selling them which has happened as we know); fewer roster changes = fewer players on the market; fewer players on the market = higher prices. I'm not saying the tax caused inflation by itself, I'm saying it contributed to make it worse. So BBs have created extra inflation in the overall market to prevent daytrading, which was my argument in trying to explain what I meant by "overdoing" and having "unwanted"/"unexpected" effects.


EDIT for Perpete: I've found at least another who was going to fire instead of selling to keep taxes low: HAHA. It's in the daytrading taxes thread.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2015 12:52:44 PM

Yea, the amount of users is making inflation worse but. hopefully utopia can get us out of the problem that they started with their managers finishing out the product that is their trainees.

Utopia is the main reason for the inflation. Suddenly you had 1000 teams with garbage rosters looking to upgrade. So all the mid-low level players cost spiked immediately after Utopia started. In the long run it might balance out IF people stick around...of course the big question now is what's going to happen to the players in those teams who will not renew their Utopia package. We all know the answer to that question given the current policy (they will all be deleted).

Last edited by Lemonshine at 3/23/2015 11:36:44 AM

There is currently 470 players with a current bid (or starting bid) at 5000$ or less. People are still selling low end players.

Lots of good comments since I read this thread yesterday. Forgive me for going back to page 2 to respond to the comment above. I think this is important for illustration.

Perpete is correct. When I did this same search, I found 475 players with a bid of $5000 or less. But let's consider the following scenario:

I just got my new team today. I see a roster of "scrubs." My best players earn $3000 to $4000 a week. The new owner checklist wants me to go buy a player on the TL. OK. If I'm going to buy a player, I'm going to buy a better player than the scrubs I already have. So, I search for players who have a maximum bid of $5000 and a minimum salary of $5000. What do I find? Of the 475 players who have a maximum bid of $5000, only 73 have a salary of at least $5000. That means of Perpete's 470 players, more than 80 percent are players that aren't going to make any team better ... at least not right now. Also, I've read the game manual and I've learned that at age 34 players begin to lose their abilities. Crap, I don't want no old guy who's not going be as good at the end of the season as he is now, so I add a maximum age of 33 to my search. What do I get then? 22 players with a minimum salary of $5000, under the age of 34 and with a low bid.

The thing is, though, 5000 salary is just an arbitrary point as well. I know I did a search just now for players under 5000 salary with at least 36 guard skill points and a current bid under 5000. Now, of course, of those 64 players there are some that are total junk, and others that are certainly an improvement above starting players but still very cost effective. 22 of those guys are 19 or younger, and some of those even have decent to good potential, while 58 of them are age 32 and below.

The same thing happens when you use 24 big man points - I'm seeing 62 currently, 18 of them at age 19 or below and 57 are 32 and below.

And you are signing up some 200 new owners every week and this is what they have to choose from?

Now granted, you don't have to be so cheap when shopping for players. So, let's change our maximum bid to $100,000. New owners certainly can buy at least one player for that amount of money and still have enough left to start building the arena, pay for scouting, buy other players, etc. I still want a $5000-a-week player and I still want a player who won't start dropping in skill after I sign him so still a maximum of 33 years old. And the total is ... 107.

Again, you're signing up some 200 new owners every week and there aren't enough players on the market for all of them to be able to complete the dang checklist ... unless you expect them to sign some old fogey or some crappy player that is no better than the scrubs you handed them on their original roster. Any wonder why new owners don't stick around for long?

The assumption there, of course, is that everyone who signs up immediately logs in, hits the transfer market when they're allowed to, and tries to buy players. I suppose it would be an interesting experiment to track the people who join the game in a given time and see how frequently they log in the first few months if they last that long - not one that I have the time or inclination to do, and maybe Marin's already got some data on that.

But yeah, when prices were falling we went from 40k+ users to 20k+ users, and now that prices are rising, that's causing the loss of users. The simple fact is that this game is a dinosaur in the modern internet, and the type of people who would enjoy it are for the most part already here.

the thing is why teams at lower leagues strides harder making myself an example. it took me 3-4 seasons of tanking meaning out of my frustration i just left my team hanging even to the point i got a warning 3x on my email stating if i dont log in in a week ill lose my team. wasted training on 2 of really good players having good base skills sets.

to make it short, it took me that long to just muster up close to 1.8 million that i can afford to buy a player that i bought at a staggering 1.5 million 70k salary player that is already 27 yrs old. because of that i have to sold 2 players of mine at a total of of 1.4 million ( i have to list them a number of times ) to cover it which let me be able to buy a 28 yr old 50k salary center at 730k

The truly unfortunate thing is that you're probably far from the only one to do this. But while it is unfortunate for you, I'd rather the game move toward rewarding teams for creating players rather than making players so inexpensive that the practice of throwing away three seasons just to pile up cash continues to be profitable and encouraged.

tell me hrudey and your all wondering how come your losing people in this game? now for you to say we are all complaining about this and that try to put yourself in our shoes. its easy to say things out of summary of ones experience but what your going through doesnt mean we are going through it the same way.

The funny thing is that it would be easier for me if we went back to deflation. My run with my core of players is coming to an end soon, and even if I can replace the three guys that I didn't build myself, the other six guys in my core are running up in age. It would be nice - for me - to see 29 year old guards at 300 or 400k, bigs at less than that, but those days are gone.

But I don't believe we're losing people because of inflation, any more than I think we lost more than 20k teams during the deflation era because of deflation. My presumption is that we're losing people because this is a very narrow target audience in the first place - guys who are willing to put in months of RL time for a single season of progress in a world where plenty of online gaming alternatives provide a more instant experience.

look before i use to get to train players at all star level from 3k salary to almost 40k consistently now i have to just satisfy myself with star level only to be so much happy if they reach a salary surpassing 20k ( im training balance guards )

is it easy to just say sell em when the time comes so at a price of around 200-400k in which i can afford to buy a better player which i have a struggling team have to try to put money on the expansion of my arena that does get full by means of having close to minimum prices

All-star potential trainees are still relatively cheap and if you're training for profit, they'll certainly end up selling for more than you paid for them, while still being good enough to play for you at any level - I mean, my two star potential guys are playing close to 20 minutes a game in the league and more in the Cup and I have no real complaints, other than the age.

another point which i agree with you is having enough talents on the market to compensate the needs of teams which in effect lowers prices. such a time in BB when centers were not expensive since its easier to train them compare to guards.

And that's sort of the whole issue here. The market rises and falls because of what is trained and what is desired (and what is lost, though the number of players lost through teams going bot I still think is not nearly as significant as some). If it were my decision to make, I probably would have made training lower potential guys significantly faster some time ago, which would help now of course and would always give new teams an avenue to improve quickly and inexpensively regardless of the market. But it's not my game.