BuzzerBeater Forums

Hello Deano, thank you for a post. It's always nice to read posts where people let us know why they think how they think... That, to me, creates a stronger community, and also helps me to see (in this case) your views on things in clearer manner. Your response actually deserves a proper reply, so even though it's almost 4 AM, I'll try to write something hopefully meaningful.

For instance you mentioned you wouldn't want it to feel burdensome, and I share that wish (I guess it's just/also that what I'm trying to achieve with encouraging people to write about why they think how they think, as for instance burdensome', 'arduous', or 'onerous' to different people means different things, and is triggered by different things).
And like I mentioned earlier, I truly wouldn't mind everything happening automatically in the league, but this is where we stand, likely as long as it's not an official league of BB.

So in order to better be able to understand what is it exactly that people feel being difficult for instance in a rule set that I proposed, I have encouraged people to speak up their mind... This way we can find solutions.

There are multiple challenges within some parts of the rules, which will require us to take a look at them before deciding whether to apply such and such rule or not. I've made some thinking on penalties/rules, and can send some of the problematic scenarios here in the forum when/if you guys are ready, so we can then consider whether it's better to refrain from enforcing such and such penalty, for instance because in some cases it could be hard or impossible to prove who was the guilty part, especially without establishing certain arduous practices (such as demands for screen shots - again a thing that could divide opinions though, as for some it's next to nothing and other person doesn't like the added work that would create).

But we'll just have to try to find some middle ground I guess, or at the very least in the beginning try to learn to understand what is it actually that makes things feel burdensome to all of us, because all of us are different and see this thing from their own perspective.

I just wanted to send you a short message quickly (but it continued and continued after all, stretching again to 4000 character post), that I understand (and partly share, somewhat surprisingly maybe?) your concern - it is a good goal to make it something we feel we can be part of in a long run, and yet at the same time, I hope we can retain certain complexity in the rules.
Not for the sake of complexity and in order to be able to penalize people as much as possible, but because they serve some meaning. Whether all of them are necessary or not - maybe not, but I suspect enforcing some might be cancelled anyway (if using my proposition on penalties as a base line here) unless we can find a fair way to enforce them (and be sure about the fairness of each penalty delivered - but this is where I'm going to need your help to assess the situations - I just haven't sent them to the forum yet as you guys have had lot of reading to do without them already).

But few things that we can (and I think will) make to lessen the burdensome feeling are:
- arrange all regular season matches in one go, as then when you do it properly, it is all done and nothing can't be forgotten
- send a reminders to teams on official league forum thread about playoff time closing in, so that they remember to arrange matches each week. (If we feel necessary, it is possible to send reminders as BBMail too if we feel like it - not necessary to decide right now of course).
- keep working towards the same goal, and trying to listen and understand each other. There is no chance that we all would agree about everything, and there might be even big differences on views in some cases. But that doesn't mean it couldn't become fantastically working, the most interesting league in BB. To me, I believe it will. :)

1 too

Thanks for clarification again.
That's a good point, that we can't add posts in front of it. But I (if I start the thread) can still always keep on editing the first post if needed, right?
One of the options would be that I'd send the proposition for example to your BBMail MrJ, or here in the forum, and see what you guys think of it and how would you possibly change it (to minimize the need for editing it in the future, and to make a good impression to people who find it for the first time) before actually publishing it in the forum thread.

As for introductory post things to consider include for instance how much information I'll add to the post itself, and how many links will be added to the main (first) post to provide additional details of the league, and whether it's better to create my own texts for each linked information page, or is it ok to refer to posts created for example by MrJ.

I think it's likely we won't be needing a poll to begin this homegrown league forum thread... But having said that, I suppose by providing a list of name suggestions, we need to be able to reach a conclusive decision on a league name before actually publishing/creating the new thread, right?
So I don't know if people noticed, that we need to vote now/really soon for the league name, as you brought up those earlier proposed league names again (as no votes have been cast yet)?

There is a possibility to make a poll for it, but it's totally possible to do the voting here on this forum too. I'd just want to see many opinions cast on this voting, as while we can change the name later, it's not totally ideal to do such change at a later time.

The point is though, as we can't change the forum thread name after being created (remember that we can and likely will create another official league thread for the season after that, so at the point of season changes titles can be "changed"), it's best to decide name of the league before we (I?) will create a new thread for the league.

If we vote here in the forum (as I understood from your post) for a new homegrown league name, my vote goes to BBHG, which has been my original suggestion for the league name since September 24th, 2024!

If we vote her, my vote goes to my proposal, from the very beginning of this (long) journey to a HomeGrown League.
H²G²L is a :
- nice name
- respectful souvenir of a Sci-Fi Novel
- better choice for HomeGrowns

(yes, I know how to sell my point of view ;) )

Thank you for your vote, WiMaOl!

Also, please vote for the league name from list above (provided by MrJ) if you have a favorite from the above list!
Same goes with other participating managers, so please vote for name, so we can get the new forum thread for the league started soon!
(For those who didn't read through all the long posts and wonder what's the rush: want to include league name in the title, as title can't be changed later on).

It is possible to do the ground work without having established the forum thread, and as we're not going to try to convince anyone else to join for the first season of the league, in that sense we are not in a terrible rush to publish/establish the thread - having said that, it's good to do most of the writing and planning of intro post content and links provided in it (and such) during this time we're waiting for league name results. And like mentioned, I've already written a lot of it.

A word/though about polls, especially considering homegrown league. This was something that I didn't think of earlier for some reason.
As background info, I think I've never started a poll (and can't do so now being non-Supporter), so I have a question.
I'd assume it's not possible to determine who is eligible to vote in that poll?
If controlling of that (by person who started the poll) isn't possible, then I guess those official polls do not work optimally for our purposes, as I´d assume we want to ask opinions of managers who are participating to the league (and maybe in some cases, opinions of those who are granted a spot to the league for the future seasons), and not from a "random bunch" of managers (which could be the case with an open, official BB poll as we don't see who has given those votes).

It is of course not so easy to see current results of voting when voting is done within forum thread (like this one), but maybe we could take a habit of writing a forum post, which we then update as voting progresses and more votes are casted. The problem with this of course is, that it's always left behind by new posts, and will become increasingly hard to find.

I'll just add the current score here though, not in a separate post (if someone wants to create such post, they are of course free to do so). I won't make assumptions who will vote for what, so it's only actual votes given so far that are counted here.
Remember, there are 14 possible votes (if we allow only voting by current participants), and only 2 have been cast so far, so please vote if you still haven't done so. Name is such an important part of the league (and in short so undesirable to change later on), that I would encourage everyone of us 14 to voice their opinion on this naming of the league-voting.

As there are so few of us voting (and it's possible that not all people even vote, even though we'd really hope you will!), one option of course, if we want to add a variety to the name voting, is to give one manager 2-3 votes instead of one.

For instance: with 2 voting possibilities, manager gets to cast 2 votes, first giving a favorite suggestion 2 points and second 1 point only to managers' second favorite option.
If voting with 3 possibilities, manager gets to cast 3 votes, first giving 3 points, second 2 points and 3rd 1 point to his 3rd favorite option.
That way we might be able to see a wider picture on how managers really think of these names.
This was just a random suggestion that occurred to me just a while ago, and on my behalf there is no need to implement this kind of method for this name voting, if you guys feel 1 vote per person provides good enough result!?

Current votes:
1 BBHG (BuzzerBeater HomeGrown) (Wagner)
0 The League (Wagner)
1 H²G²L (Heroic Home Grown GreatestS League) (demars)
0 IHGL (International HG League) (MrJ)
0 HGL (Hadar)

Also, please vote for the league name from list above

HGL (Hadar)

My vote goes to Hadar's HGL

There is beauty in simplicity ;)