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just think twice before putting player on TL with low price for hope that more users will fight for him... Nothing else you need... cause if day-trader gets player for 100k who`s worth is 600k it`s your own fault... If you`re taking the risk by putting you player for much more lower price then he`s worth so be responsible for that....

That`s just my opinion...

Sorry Patje, but it's hard ot buy decent players simply because there are a lot of people richer than you.

Yeah that's true, but this will happen even more if the market was smaller.

If the players aren't on the market nobody can buy them ;). With less players on the market prices will go up even more, since the players are more rare then. So when all daytraders are gone we have less players on the market, if I want to buy one then I need 1,4 million instead of 1 million for example.

Now the daytraders have way more money yes, and they can buy any player they want, but I can buy all those other players because the average price is lower than when they wouldn't be here.

You have a right about volume of users - this limitation should be done on Hattrick a years ago and it still is in there - and users got used to it. I talked about this theme on our national conference in Hattrick few times with the users and they are using Daytrading or Skilltrading so long that they have now so distorted perception that they mostly doesn't see that it should be a football and not some kind of business game "keep the market alive and win the Hattrick Masters title".

I would to risk that on the market will be so small amount of players - because the big competitions would win ONLY honest teams, with a managers behind - which in fact know something and got theirs glory thanks to theirs knowledge and wisdom.

The training of a players is a slow to put any quality candidate for sale in a short time and is logical that the market will be without players which travel from the team to the other - dead, but -

There should be the other way how to supply our managers by a players without ruining of a honest game. We can get a 1 pickup from draft in advance or by offering of a free players at the begining of a every season - you know there are a lot of fired players which trained by theirs own, got better and want to get back to play as a professional.

The possibilities are unlimited, there has to be just a open mind which will understand that by a daytrading will be the old mistakes from a old games repeated again!

Think about it, it IS a mistake to accept the easiest and most wrong solution

Ned. I realised how hard it is to buy decent players

Sorry Patje, but it's hard ot buy decent players simply because there are a lot of people richer than you.

yes, and Patjes replay is what I agree too, and to add:
I think that teams in your environment (read same lenght of playtime, and same division) are in the same situation, so it does not nessecarily give you a disadvantage compared to your direct concurents... I think it only normal for Div I teams to be able to buy better players than lower division teams.

I also copied this sentence from amongst the posts:
My point is that the day traders are setting the minimum bidding point for everyone else.
I don't agree here. If they ask too much, people will not buy anymore, and wait until the same player comes along for less. Daytraders, if if you combine them aal, can NOT buy every last player on the TL, especially not if they can't sell the ones the already bought, so eventually players will be able to buy for less than what daytraders ask if they ask too much. One could also buy a little less good and train him up as well, so day traders will also need to buy every available players that is almost as good, this is not realistic. What daytraders can do is see what the price is that people want to pay for a type of player, then look for them on the TL and see if they can get one for less, and relist him. It's a lot of work, and imho they deserve the money they make that way. I occasionally search the TL, and even want to buy 1 or 2 young players for my own to train them, and if you look at my history, you will see I haven't bought in a long time. I've been bidding on tons of players, and did not get 1 of them, simply because I don't want to pay the amounts they went for...
It is not unlimited, and it sure is not the daytraders who set the price, not at all !!! the only thing daytraders do, is play with the TL, some gamble, some wait until they see an almost sure investment, but none, can set (lower, nor raise) the prices for players.

So in your case the best solution would be player contracts... Like in Fifa Manager (yes I know that one is football), there is no chance to day-trade in it... Just because of limits how many time player can change team per season, as well Player character (if he don`t wanna leave your club, the only way is to fire him and pay all his salary at once....)


but all this would need really huge amount of memory (and work in programming as well), which our servers don`t have...

But Sir Lord of Doom, the question is: who's taking advantage from DT? Do u really think that the users are taking an advantage? I think that DT is an advantage only for who's making it and in this case I don't see any reason to keep alive this sistem to play. I can understand that some people considers trading funny that's why I don't want it will be cancelled but pls I think nobody can say that without DTs the market should be dead. What is the real problem is that training players is worst than trading players, you can obtain better and faster results if you trade players instead of train them and imo that's not good at all. Anyway my position I think should be clear, with 5 millions in my pocket it should be easy to win a championship; what hurts me is that if there are 100 people with 5 millions cash, you'll find those 100 guys in the first 100 positions...

I doesn't know a Fifa Manager and I didn't mean a contracts - it isn't necessary

If you fire a player - he just disappear - but he can occur after another season in another team with a some better, few worse skills (according to a logic) with an option to pick him up to your team... if you mean this case

or do a free players draft whole together to a every country and depends on a higher offer where he will goes with an limitation (example) max 3 players to pick or the dependence will be about anything else - but this is for another discussion and I should to focus more on that point to think out something...

...important is that there ARE the other ways and even more of them to fix that problem - that I wanted to tell

Last edited by Iordanou at 4/11/2008 10:48:53 AM

I haven`t seen any day- trader in top leagues... and that says much... And if they ever will want to start play normally they first of all will give back all their profit to those who trained players for be able to pick good balanced team... and will pay even more...

...and will get a so good players - which will normal manager never get!

pay even more for a stolen money!

ok, enough provocation, ZyZla:)

that money aren`t stolen... I posted before that it`s your own responsibility with what price you put your player on TL...

But Sir Lord of Doom, the question is: who's taking advantage from DT? Do u really think that the users are taking an advantage? I think that DT is an advantage only for who's making it and in this case I don't see any reason to keep alive this sistem to play. I can understand that some people considers trading funny that's why I don't want it will be cancelled but pls I think nobody can say that without DTs the market should be dead. What is the real problem is that training players is worst than trading players, you can obtain better and faster results if you trade players instead of train them and imo that's not good at all. Anyway my position I think should be clear, with 5 millions in my pocket it should be easy to win a championship; what hurts me is that if there are 100 people with 5 millions cash, you'll find those 100 guys in the first 100 positions...

I do think DT has it's benefits, for that refer to my posts early in this tread.
I am not saying TL will be dead if DT stops.
I also am confident that, in a way, users also benefit from DT. Let's hypotheticaly asume there will be no daytrading whatsoever. Say you put up your SF (who is worth about 50000) for 0 dollars, now, if only 1 player is interested, he will buy him for 1000, and you get 970 dollars. Let's say that 2 people are interested, then yuo still sell for 1000, because quite possibly there are a few of such SF on the market, and both can buy for 1000. Now bring back the daytraders. The day traders will bid to about 40000, because they will relist him for 50000, and hope some people will start a bidwar. If the 1 player who wants him bids 41k, he probably will get him, so you as user will get about 39000 dollars more... In an other case, if nobody realy needs him, you can not sell him at all, while daytraders will almost always buy... But okay, it is a never ending discussion.
Finally, you say that with DT more money can be made than with training... I don't think so, if that was the case, you'd see in my history that I had bought and sold many many players lately, and in fact, I only sold the ones I trained, and was not able to buy new deals... the people who CAN, I have so much respect for, that they just earn the money they make, it REALY is hard, if it was not, everyone would do it.
Typically the more one hears shouting DT should stop, the less the have tried to practice it, or the more frustrated they are that they themselves don't seem to be able to do it as others can 'so easely' do it. The fact is, and stays, that everyone is free to do it... The ones crying out loud that it is very profitable should not wait any longer and start making money! There is no moral question involved since it is a game, and it has fictive players with no feelings. Don't come here with realism, because the ones doing, I'm sure, will be the first to fire their level 6 coach for a level 8 coach while they are winning all their games anyway (realism to fire a coach when a team wins all games??) and tons of other examples.
I'm betting it is pure jealousy, so I say, either make money any way you can (within the boundaries of the rules ofcourse) or choose not to, but do not criticise the ones who do...
EDIT: I am not pointing to anyone specific here, it is a general post for everyone, ned accidentaly seemed the be the one I sent the response to, but it was meant for everone...

Last edited by Lord of Doom at 4/11/2008 11:50:11 AM