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It is ridiculous that there is an actual debate on the messages of Effort in games.
If you didn't figure it out within 2 weeks, then you need take more risks with TIE and CT. Analyse games. It was so easy to figure out and it takes about 10 min.....

First of all.
"King John Warriors tried harder in this game than The Random Dunkers."

.... appears way more often than...

"Newcastle Magpies were the only team who tried."

First thing you'll think is why?... and then you should check more games to figure out why there are two messages.


If you didn't draw the conclusion that one message belongs to normal vs TIe/CT and the other one to TIE vs CT... then you need to learn how to put 2 and 2 together.




And seriously... GM-Juicepats is probably the most active Gm on the forum. ( Probably too active for his own health. )It's not a surprise that he'll contact the BB's more often than the other GM's to get answers on your questions. Be thankful for that, instead of throwing suspicion at his credibility for being the one GM that gets the most information out of the BB's.

Last edited by Legen...Riceball...Dary! at 4/20/2008 7:01:58 PM

What is your source for this?

Regardless, TIE vs CT will give that message - period.

what is your source that TIE vs CT will give that message?

The BB team.

Can you link to that BB-statement?

I asked them in response to this thread, and that is the answer I was given.

Finally, some real effort to answer, especially the confirmation with the UK English database.

Of course it is not that much data, but still it points in the same direction as the small amount of data that I have from my games, but I have not CT yet, so I have even less information than you.

In that case I most admit I am quite surprised and dissapointed over the way of communication from BB. From what I have seen this far they have had a very good communication policy, but I guess they can stumble too.

I appologize if I offended you.

Finally, some real effort to answer, especially the confirmation with the UK English database.

Of course it is not that much data, but still it points in the same direction as the small amount of data that I have from my games, but I have not CT yet, so I have even less information than you.

Right, an answer given to a GM by the BB team to be passed on to the community is not to be trusted.

::rolls eyes:

No, it is most definitely not a good way of communication in this kind of matters according to me. If they want to give th answer there is no actual reason why they should not give it directly in the thread. Passing this kind of information through a user, independently if it is a GM or a "normal" user, will create confusion over time.

In that case I most admit I am quite surprised and dissapointed over the way of communication from BB. From what I have seen this far they have had a very good communication policy, but I guess they can stumble too.

I appologize if I offended you.

I don't understand where the real breakdown in communication was.

The News pretty much got it right, but didn't explicitly state what the exact wording of the TIE vs CT message would be. Perhaps it could have been, but it seems that many did understand the message in the 1st place.

I got a clarification so that the community would know exactly what was going on, and I'm told that it's not to be trusted, and that's quite irritating.

I'm not trying to play the role of the crusty jackass (this time), but it's frustrating.

The News pretty much got it right, but didn't explicitly state what the exact wording of the TIE vs CT message would be. Perhaps it could have been, but it seems that many did understand the message in the 1st place.

According to me there was nothing incorrect or bad at all with the News (and I have not saif that either).

I got a clarification so that the community would know exactly what was going on, and I'm told that it's not to be trusted, and that's quite irritating.

Sending out this kind of clarification through a GM is not a good way to handle information according to me, and there are severalreasons for that. For instance we don't know the actual question sent, or the actual answer you where given, we d not know if you might have missinterpreted ther answer (everyone can misinterpret at times), and so on. Actually, sometimes a GM might even forget to forward the answer to the community and then he will have in game information that other users have no access too.

Of course this particular issue is a very small one, but still pipelining this kind of information through a GM is dangerous, especially as the game grows.

No, it is most definitely not a good way of communication in this kind of matters according to me. If they want to give th answer there is no actual reason why they should not give it directly in the thread. Passing this kind of information through a user, independently if it is a GM or a "normal" user, will create confusion over time.

Part of a GM's role is to do specifically what I did - act as a conduit between the BB team and the community.

It looks like you're trying to tell me that it's better to not be informed about something than to have me inform you.

If that's the case, then I'm completely dumbfounded as to why.

Oftentimes a conversation goes like this:

Me: There's been some questions on the forums about how X works. It's being posted that they think that X is behaving in Y manner. Is this how it's meant to be, or is this not correct?

Several responses can result:

BB: That's confidential (rarely ever hear this, since I know better at this point what is and what isn't public knowledge.

BB: Yes, that is how it works.

BB: I'm not sure, I can look and I'll let you know. (In this case, I'll find out and pass on the info for you when it's made available).

BB: No, X should behave in Z manner, not Y. We'll fix that, and please respond with the answer.

Sometimes, when they have time, they'll post themselves, but part of our job is to post these things so that they can do the actual development work.

Truth is, the BBs are much more active with News posts and on the forums than the BBs are.

I mean, BB-Charles, BB's answer to HT-Bjorn (but with a much better point guard game) has posted fairly regularly on the forums. I've never seen Bjorn post. In fact, the whole BB team is good about seeing what the community is talking about.

If you want the more impersonal, robotic approach, then you should look to Hattrick for that.

BuzzerBeater is definitely not Hattrick, and they're doing a fabulous job of taking the good from HT while discarding the bad, and also forging their own identity.

Please, for the love of (insert deity here), don't look to BB to be "the basketball version of Hattrick".

Please.

Sending out this kind of clarification through a GM is not a good way to handle information according to me, and there are severalreasons for that. For instance we don't know the actual question sent, or the actual answer you where given, we d not know if you might have missinterpreted ther answer (everyone can misinterpret at times), and so on. Actually, sometimes a GM might even forget to forward the answer to the community and then he will have in game information that other users have no access too.

If your opinion of the GM team is so low, then there's not really much more to say - your opinion isn't changing anytime soon.

congratulations for the patience you have shown in this thread. :)

No kidding

Last edited by Newton07 at 4/21/2008 3:51:35 AM