BuzzerBeater Forums

This is the bugs forum, not the place for discussion of peripheral issues.

Personally, I can't see why that happened either - I don't see an injury or foul out or ejection for two flagrant fouls. Maybe Marin can see more on that, since while there's no guarantee of 48 minutes, I don't see why player E wouldn't have been substituted out when possible.

Exactly, since there is no guarantee of anyone having the ability to play 48 minutes per position (the game was never designed to support it), the issue is not really a bug. It's always a tradeoff between securing trainee minutes by playing the trainee in at least two matches and risking not to get them by trying to get him 48 minutes in one match. The latter is never certain, no matter what you do.

As a thought exercise, I'd say the player that was replaced first had the worst stamina.

DeSimone would most likely have stayed in the game at least until the last few minutes of play had you set your lineup like this:

A-F-F
B-B-B
C-C-C
D-D-D
E-G-G

Yours and a few other similar cases that I recall clearly show that players set at the reserve spots are simply not acknowledged by the game engine during blowouts in the closing minutes of the third quarter if a different player is set as both the starter and backup at that position. At a similar time in the fourth quarter, the engine will simply override both the backups and reserves set. This instance regarding the fourth quarter is more widely known just because most users tend not to set players only as reserves.

Basically, in that particular game, the game engine identified that you had no backup players set and imposed a blowout rule, which should be similar to - if not the same - as the one used in the fourth quarter, which is, in essence: "sub out as many starters as possible".

I have never used the lineup structure you used in that game, so I don't have an effective way to analyse the behavior of the engine more objectively on third quarter garbage time, but here is a brief analysis of data gathered from pretty much every single game in which my team had at least one player subbed out of the game during its closing minutes in an "X-X-X", "Strictly Follow Depth Chart", "Let Them Play" scenario: the decision to sub out a player is based exclusively on his playing time and stamina; players with high stamina (starting probably from a certain sublevel of respectable) seem to not get subbed out of the game; the lower the player's stamina, the earlier he will be subbed if a break happens (2,30 mins left is probably the earliest point) ; when multiple players are set to play the full game and a break into that period occurs when at least two of them have entered their stamina threshold, the substitutions will be ordered by their stamina (from lowest to highest). Skills other than stamina are a factor only when choosing which players will be subbed in.

With those points in mind, you can somewhat work around the game engine to achieve your minute goals regarding certain players, but you might be forced to make some sacrifices in exchange sometimes. Of course, the easiest and safest way to assure 48 minutes of play in a single game still is to be on the other end of a blowout.

Also, much has been discussed about the way the engine handles substitutions and the philosophy that surrounds it, but at least that backup/reserve interaction in the third quarter should still be taken as a bug. It would also be nice to see a short note be added to the game manual regarding high minutes in an effort to at least redirect part of the threads that would be created in the bugs forums to the Suggestions/Help forums.



Last edited by Densler at 9/11/2015 6:27:54 AM

Garbage time is when normal substitution rules don't apply, hence, your situation. While you may wonder why a player played out of position, it is clear that the reasons for that are not in the normal substitution rules, but in the basic implementation of garbage time. I agree that it is not perfect and that in this situation the substitution pattern could be better but it is a well known fact that in garbage time, anything goes. We haven't touched it and there have been no changes to this particular piece of code since way back when so it should come as no real surprise for a 25 season veteran that this happens.

Another thing is that you are trying to separate this issue from the 48min per match situation, but that's impossible. These two issues are in this case very much connected since you were trying to get 4 players the 48 minutes. Therefore, if you hadn't done that, the other issue wouldn't become an issue at all.

I agree, BB do strange things since one or two seasons...the 1st quarter becomes just ridiculous, today 9 Minutes one basket scored 8 fouls...every game the same shit in the 1st quarter some players seems not knowing how to play...in my last cup game it was a server error in the 2Qt i took a 34 - 12 against a team from same level during this time...strange

In my PO game last season, i had a sub for my SG and SF, the engine just decided to understand that differently, my SF played 49 mins (loss in OT),which what was not needed as he has a 2 in stamina...in a close PO game this is embarassing


Last edited by Tom2vals at 9/19/2015 1:57:11 PM

The games are calculated prior to being played, not at the time of the live transmission, so a server error cannot have any effect on a match performance.

Also, in close matches starters have a big advantage over their backups, as they always have, a strategy which is based on the assumption that you'd like for your best lineup to be out there when it's most important.